A less polite way to put it would be:
The ignorant and delusional vs. those who strive to be aware and prepared.
Some look at basic safety related skills as a bother and something they’ll never need to use. I think they tell themselves this to avoid it, or cover for the fact they can’t do these things and frankly just shouldn’t be out there. At best, they’ve done a couple rescues, a while ago (maybe an intro class and never practiced), but it’s not seen as a normal part of paddling and odds of them reliably recovering from a real capsize are slim. These types tempt fate every time they go out in even mild conditions.
Others put the odds more in their favor by working on those skills so even more challenging conditions and situations offer minimal danger that can be managed.
What attitude is more appropriate to promote on a public paddling board?
Being a bird watcher does not remove one’s responsibility to be a safe paddler and be capable of reliably executing self and assisted rescues and having decent control of your craft. To me this is as fundamental to paddling as the paddle!
I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see arm paddlers meandering about with minimal control - or seriously unfit people attempting paddling at all. Sure, odds are they’ll be fine, but things can go downhill so fast…
I’d bet groups like that first one described in the post above are very common, and I find them very scary. Members get a false sense of security from paddling together, but put each other at even greater risk. One capsize can quickly become 4 in such groups. Safety in numbers requires some level of competence from the individuals.
Exposure to paddlers who are comfortable at all angles and have good control of their boats (and enjoy working on these things) is all it really takes for the light to go on for all but the most stubborn and afraid (the “I’m fine just the way I am” and “I stay close to shore” types).
Given the number of sightseer type rec paddlers, the percentage of paddlers who cannot get back in their own boats in deep water would probably scare us all if it were known. Somehow we as a community seem to let such behavior and attitudes persist - and some seem to argue that those who practice and develop their skills are just worry warts and their time spent on these things is overkill. Believe what you want, but please don’t spread that sort of attitude on a paddling site.
I guess it’s also hard to sell kayaks to beginners if they think it requires effort or skill and involves risk. Nice to see the industry grow, but not if it’s at the expense of a realistic approach. I don’t think portraying paddling as a zero risk activity that anyone can do is a good idea in the long run.
I guess I simply don’t understand people who don’t have even the most basic skills, and even worse have no intent of learning any, yet insist on going out on the water. Some even go to full on sea kayaks, but still don’t practice reentries, learn to roll, or even lean/edge them (and still feel compelled to make opinionated posts on such topics). What’s the point? I’ve heard of several “paddlers” who don’t have enough upper body strength to do simple reentries and some who can’t even swim. There may not be any this bad on these boards (though I have to wonder about a few), but most paddlers aren’t on these boards. They’re out on their own, or with others like them, on the water in Sam’s Club kayaks without a clue.
Try to tell them anything, and you’re a yuppie SINK snob. I usually paddle on by and keep my mouth shut unless asked about something. Not out of lack of compassion, but because I’ve seen that there is more resistance than interest, and even among the receptive there is little comprehension of what you’re telling them as it doesn’t fit their limited experience. If someone asks, I’ll offer as much of what little I know as they want to hear and point them to more. In colder waters - I’d be a bit more intrusive.
Ignorance is no excuse. I started paddling alone, and I still paddle mostly alone. The first paddle with every boat I’ve had I make sure I go over and try some recoveries somewhere I can control things - and move it up from these. No one told me to do this with my first kayak - before any club or P’net interaction. It’s just common sense, isn’t it?
I’m not one to be on the side of regulations for paddlers but the more I see other paddlers on the water the more I think some sort of basic boater safety course with a rescue/recovery requirement is not such a bad idea for people using public waterways. Being able to take care of yourself on the water should not be optional.
Hey, somebody had to rant! Apologies to original poster since he only made me think about the topics here, and from the start he said: “I fully understand the need for safety and have taken classes and carry (and) know how to use the usual gear.” So he’s probably not what I’m talking about(unless the classes were all he’s done), but the kick back attitude he promotes can be twisted by the unskilled into more reason/excuse to stay that way.
I don’t understand
why you feel the need to criticize other’s approach to paddling. You keep saying “I see too much” this or that. If some guy was out just to practice sculling and braces and rolls, why does that remind you that you think “paddling” is being overtaken by “technomania”. Don’t you know that guy only practices skills once or twice a year in the summer, when the air and water are warm, and that he goes out three times a week, year-round to enjoy the zen of paddling? I think you are jumping to conclusions about others based on your own VERY limited and biased observations. Why do you feel that YOU are the sensible one and you have the duty to usher everyone else back into the line that YOU think they should be in?
I think those who know what can happen on the water like to use this forum to help educate others about subtle dangers. It’s also a great place to learn and share knowledge.
I find myself in the “zen” when my body, soul and MIND are all integrated in my paddling.
you forgot to take you own pill!
“joined has an ed at the end”
I’d say. Too much technical talk. What about the “zen” of just letting the thought flow and not side tracked by meaningless grammer rule!
As for the accomplishments? Half of the “regular” poster here are even better. If that makes you feel inadequate, you need to find another forum. On the other hand, if you put as much effort into learning all those technical skills as you obviously put into policing the grammer and spelling of posts on this board, you will easily found yourself equally accomplished as well!
Cold Water …
not always but often heightens awareness of basic risks. Most canoeing and kayaking deaths happen in pretty warm water, around 70 degrees, based on the stats. I and anyone who paddles in the northeast can probably agree that the number of severely ill-equipped and under-prepared paddlers increases almost overnight once the water hits about 69. One problem is that some of these folks translate that level of relative safety even though under-prepared to colder water as the temps drop in the fall and start out cold the next spring.
Florida is perhaps too warm to teach anyone a lesson about hypothermia, though personally I’ll take my colder waters and fewer sharks any day of the week.
while I agree
safety comes first.
I think it’s important to have fun with safety too. Just because it’s rescue practice doesn’t mean you can’t have fun, make a game of it.
See if everyone can do the hand of god on everyone else, no matter how inexperienced or how big the size difference is amongst the group. Have the smallest paddler rescue the biggest guy in the biggest kayak.
Do a t rescue but make the victim stand on their back deck to get in…
If you’re paddling along and some one is talking about how weak their offside roll is push them in when they are least expecting it on their offside to see if they roll up. Preferably in warm water on calm days.
You don’t have to be a safety fascist to enjoy paddling.
You don’t want to be that guy everyone knows who shows up in the middle of summer to paddle on an inland lake or calm river who wears his drysuit, helmet, tow rig and rescue knife who checks everyone’s kayaks over, and demands to know their BCU rating before heading out do you?..
Most People
Most people in our culture identify themselves by what they are rather than who they are. Being someone who can roll a kayak is a thing, so to speak. Being moved by the beauty of your environment is being a person.
I think Castaway would rather share human feelings, than robotic like technical achievements.
Whoa!
You’re missing the fundemental paradox of learning any skill – that you concentrate and practice so that you can think about it less. Practicing a skill until it becomes subconcious frees your mind to appreciate what’s happening around you.
Who is in a better position to appreciate the beauty of an oncoming wave – someone whose lack of skills makes him tense and apprehensive, or someone whose practiced skills make him relaxed and confident?
love
By perhaps a huge stretch . . . developing rescue and safety skills might be associated with love . . .love that is for your loved ones and family . . . by not pre-maturely permanently leaving them for a tragedy that could have been avoided by being skilled while on water. My wife recently stated that she, "feels better now that I've learned rescue and bracing skills . .when I am gone paddling for the day." her statement, made my training and practice efforts all worth it!
Nothing Wrong With Sharing Feelings…
folks are doing it on the Discussion forum. At the same time, this is the technical forum and folks generally want to talk technical stuff.
I don't consider paddling "my life" but an aspect of my life. However, when I visit this particular forum, I do so because I am interested in the discussions pertaining to the technical aspects. If I were to just meet you and sharing a meal and you started talking about how good the food taste, the ingredients, the preperation involved, I would hope that I would not generalize you as being someone solely interested in the consumption of food.
Castaway stated that this thread may "ruffle some feathers." I think he already understood that because to a certain extent he is generalizing about folks he knows little about beyond that they are abiding by the guidelines of this particular forum.
I think generalizing has a way of getting folks worked up. No one wants to get stereotyped by others, never mind someone who really has barely a clue about one's life, thoughts, passions, etc...
sing
The requisite skills to appreciate
There is an interesting point. It takes a certain level of ability to get involved to the point where you finally start to understand the true physical forces and dynamics of the ocean. True of all endeavors I believe.
One winter day my friend who is an avid board surfer and I were taking a potential employee out to lunch we drove back to work along Torrey Pines State beach, there was a huge winter storm and 12’-14’ rollers breakign a quarter of a mile out.
“Oh it’s so beautiful and PEACEFUlL” she exclaimed. My friend and I broke out laughing knowing what kind of mahyhem it would be to try to be out in the middle of the storm waves. Very different points of perception and understanding.
Isn’t this the truth
"“Who is in a better position to appreciate the beauty of an oncoming wave – someone whose lack of skills makes him tense and apprehensive, or someone whose practiced skills make him relaxed and confident?”"
A couple of weeks ago I was out on my surfski in full-on small craft advisory conditions just hooting it up (once I made it through a pretty unrelenting beach break). Wind was sideshore at 20kts and seas were running 7ft and 9seconds out of the east with a 2ft whitecapping chop running across the dominant sea. Two years ago I couldn’t paddle my surfski beam-to a boat wake much less look to one side or the other without bracing on that side. Now I comfortably paddle in a choppy ocean and get to see quite alot while out. I saw several sea turtles staging off the beach waiting to come in to lay eggs. While paddling into the wind I almost had a head on collision with a dolphin that was surfing the oncoming wave. Then there is that connected feeling you get when you link several runs together…Without serious attention to practice I wouldn’t be able to enjoy the shear magic of a rough ocean.
Seeing the trees rather than the forest?
I think I get what you’re saying, but OTOH it’s better to have more skills than necessary than the other way around. Skills allow relaxation and enjoyment
If you are uptight about capsizing and its aftereffects, how can you really let yourself tune into what’s AROUND your kayak? That’s what makes you too focused on you and the kayak! You will be looking at the trees and not seeing the forest, literally. Which, ironically, might be exactly the opposite of your intentions.
Having a higher level of skills also allows you to go out in a broader range of conditions, thus allowing you more chances of spotting that raven doing acrobatics in the wind, feeling enthralled with the spray in your hair, whooping for joy when the wind gives you a wild (but controllable) ride.
Obtaining skills and enjoying your surroundings are not mutually exclusive. The first supports the second.
and speaking of Zen…
Any follower of Zen Buddhism – or any other meditative religion/philosophy – will tell you that it requires…practice. Achiving a clear eye and a quiet mind takes discipline and work. There’s a lot more to it than just thinking “…whooooa…nature…cooool…”
Thank You!
"That guy"
Dry suit? Helmet? BCU rating? Were you relating a personal account? 
Practice
My “understanding” is that practice isn’t really “required” - it’s just that most of us are unlikely to awake from our delusions without some from of “practice”. It may weed the garden and prepare the ground, but is neither seed nor soil.
If one meditates with the idea it will lead to enlightenment, that very idea will block them, and can be the hardest weed to pull (though perceived level of effort, and time required, are self imposed illusions).
Practice may help polish the mirror, but it is does not generate the reflection. Focused “practice” can be useful, but can just as effectively become a distraction or escape and actually block attainment. Same with the more intense but fleeting moments of Satori, which can leave you searching for more and ending up with less. Neither experience is required for enlightenment, or inherently good or bad.
All things mental have duality, the middle path lies between - and not separate from. It does not lead to an escape from mind, but a freedom of mind. Journeying along it can provide a balanced and unified understanding. Meditation, even taken to the extreme of conformity to an orderly monastic lifestyle, only benefits if it serves as a contrast/balance to an unruly inward state. That contrast can then be used to find the center where both and neither can be seen as one.
The journey along the middle path is what I’d call “practice” - and it takes as many forms as there are sentient beings. Meditation, mindful living [and I think paddling skill work and simple enjoyment all fits here], or whatever.
The Enlightened do not need to continue to “practice” to remain enlightened (can you un-see what you have seen?), but it’s interesting to note that they always do (right along with continuing with the rest of their lives activities). Despite potential side benefits, “practice” is best done as its own reward, not a means to an end.
Once focus on the end is dropped, you can be fully in the present and progress unencumbered (this is not about goals - it’s about attention). This is the difference between experiencing a constant state of attainment (as you travel the path) vs. a continuous perception of lack (as the goal still eludes you).
All this simply makes the premise of the original post invalid to me. I see no conflict or opposition between practicing paddling skills/techniques and enjoyment of the time in and on the water. One in the same. Ripples on the water.
To wrap it up, todays lesson is: Good espresso = boring long winded posts!
Writing Long Takes Practice! LOL!
seriously, there are some many pitfalls and traps to trying to be enlightened. (And, almost certainly when some proclaims enlightenment, they are not.) But, attaining awareness does take some amount of practice to note the “monkey brain” that jumps around with thoughts and judgements and to shut it down. Actually, in doing something fully, even without thought to enlightenment, can sometimes result in the calming of the mind and an emerging into awareness, no matter how transient this state may be.
Anyways, just agreeing (I think). LOL!
sing
Ecstasy…then laundry
I understand what you mean
and I think there are some people who get too into the gear, or being “competitive”, like many do in other sports like cycling (especially road) running, etc. - I’m of the age group (late 20’s, early 30’s) that seems most prone to this. It’s about having the right gear to look legitimate, and even though you spend 60-80 hours a week behind a desk for a securities firm, you think you are some kind of “professional” athlete. Look at Outside. It used to be cool stories about people who had climbed mountains or cheated death, or cool places to go do some hiking or paddling or ecotourism. Now it seems every other article is about “how to raise your VOmax 0.0000001%” or “Train like Lance Armstrong” (hell, every article for the last 3 years has been about Lance), and these management consultants, securities analysts, investment bankers, all eat this up because they like to think of themselves as “serious” athletes, and they are out there pushing themselves during the little free time they have, and can’t take time to stop and enjoy the ride.
That being said, I think the vast majority of paddlers aren’t like that, and I think we do enjoy the ride most of the time rather than focusing on technique, squeezing a little more speed out, but when we get on this board, that is because we are spending our dry time thinking about technique.
I think the enjoyment
is there, just fun to talk gear, strategy and other subjects. If we didn’t enjoy paddling, why would we read or post on this site?