My day boat is a Vela, and it is messing me up for finding another because I like its quickness. It's not easy to replicate in a boat that is as friendly. The Avocet LV came closest, but at 5'4" and 135 pounds I agree I may be pushing the top of its range by the time I add gear for a day on the ocean in Maine. The Tiderace Excite S has my interest still, but less since I found out it doesn't have a normal day hatch.
I would agree with what Salty said - the Eliza in composite is more interesting than the poly version. Though if you are used to the personality of a Vela, maybe not enough more interesting to ring your bells. Also no day hatch, giving me pause both because I really use that thing when leading local paddles to carry the spare cag etc as well as to access stuff when we are out for the day in Maine. I don't relish the idea of having to ask another paddler's help when I want something that is larger. I also like the added strength from having a third bulkhead.
All things considered though, I'd give the composite Eliza another look as a do-everything day/training boat if it had a day hatch. It's sexy enough, I'd keep the Vela anyway, and while we didn't try it I suspect it gives me some head room should I be in a training or whatever where I'd have to put a large guy on my back deck.
The paddler looking for a boat is my height, but obviously in better control of her weight than me. So her weight range is well into the Avocet LV and the Mystic, but that inch or two of height puts her into a slightly larger group of boats than her weight.
Also interesting to see the discussion above on the Suka. Of the new CD boats it was the one that I thought was the most sexy, and it is a boat that responds well if you really put it over on the edge. However, I found myself wanting them to take just a smidge off the middle of the boat. No design imperative there - just felt like I was wearing a slightly wider boat than I needed. Great cockpit fit.
Cindy agrees! she doesn’t mind computers but finds the chit-chat on p.net a bit tedious.
that said…she really likes the Avo-LV. we picked one up last year, actually the first one to come stateside, a ‘sturdy’ OR sample, and she loves it. It’s enough out of the Tempest box to really be different and VERY sporty.
Great! Great! After reading all these posts…now I really need to sell my boat and try an Avocet LV (if I can find one to try being that there are no Valley dealers in NJ). I also demoed the Suka in wind and chop and found it performed beautifully. Never felt off guard or skittish. I also demoed the Willow (not for me…sluggish), the Wilderness Systems Tempest 165 Pro(that was my second choice) and the Force Cat3(was Ok but not thrilled with it…Suka better for me).
Has anyone had any experience with an Anas Acuta? Was also considering this one.
Composite Yeah, Salty, I was sorta surprised at her reaction. I really was impressed by the lines of the comp Eliza, and was thinking it could be a great day/play boat.
Part of my point was that, often a boat choice is an emotional decision. My wife just didn’t like the Eliza at all! But when asked to put her reaction into words, she struggled.
The major thing was the fit! Which is odd…but, being rather tiny, she really slopped around in the cockpit. Also, she didn’t like the seat. I reminded her how often we have to pad out/customize any boat’s cockpit (for her or for me). Then she defended her opinion, saying that the boat was too sluggish for her tastes. Hmmm…
Interesting point. When she first tried out the Romany LV, the first three times were in fairly demanding rough water. She loved it. And then she tried it out in flatwater, and was bored. Said that it felt like it was “pushing a wall” at the bow.
The only time she tried the Eliza, she paddled a short time, and came back with the same thoughts she had about the Romany LV inf flatwater. Never gave it a chance in the lumpy stuff.
And yes, I also agree about the Eliza being a fun boat for skilled paddlers in the chunky monkey. There is a small group, locally, of fairly skilled women paddlers. The most petite seem to favor the Avocet LV,
and those of more common size favor the Romany LV, which has quite a local following. The few who have tried the comp Eliza have given it a thumbs up, although that opinion is held mostly by women of medium to…husky…builds. One person, who has her own boats, grabs the Eliza as her teaching boat whenever it is available. She is about 5’7", and rather…well, she can’t even get into my wife’s Vela.
Now, on another thought- I have been of the opinion that kayaks are often too wide for petite women. Two reasons, one of which is that the wetted surface of most kayaks is un-necessary resistance for those who are less strong. Two, they often have difficulty edging (I have often had to add seat height to aid petite paddlers in learning edging).
What I am getting at is this. When I look at a new boat design, the first thing I do is turn it upside down and look at the hull. When I did this to the comp Eliza, my first thought was, “huh, it looks like a Coaster…with softened edges…and at least two inches narrower!!!” The first thing I said out loud, was, “honey, you gotta try this thing”.
Very very fair Yeah, the comp Eliza is a superb rough water boat, but it IS intentionally designed for the “average” feamale build. Many women including a physician were part of the ergo on that cockpit, and the repeated theme was “Don’t make it too damn small, most of us still need some room!” Statistically that is correct, but the downside is it that for truly small women, it’s still a bit big. I’d like to see that deck come down an inch or more for another version.
My guess is your wife would like that one in rough water. Not long ago Ben Lawrey expressed how much he thought of the boat as well, only he would not have deemed it a “women’s” boat. I tend to agree. It’s a great smaller boat.
There’s so much subjective stuff as you know. My wifes comp Eliza ia an original 30 lb. Carbon with a shaped foam seat, and lower deck. Too bad that never made it to market.
Speed and Fit Is there a long boat besides the Seaward/Nigel Foster Silhouette, that is narrow enough and worthy enough for the smaller/lighter paddlers for multi day journeys?
I keep seeing references to playful sea kayaks. Fine and dandy until you want to make some time and distance with 17’ and longer boats.
Finding an LV Try getting in touch with any Valley dealer and ask if the area rep has a demo one, and what his schedule is. There was one at a demo day in NH this past weekend, but I didn’t ask if it belonged to the rep or the local shop.
a few 17 footers are out there. They are have a 22" beam which seems to go along w. these longer lengths.
Not de facto a bad thing. Depends on your motor, the hull design and myriad other things.
besides the Impex Cat3 already mentioned a few times
(which I tried and liked)here are some others I know of but have not paddled:
Ikkuma 17 (17x22 w. an 11.5’ depth).
Boreal Designs Ellesmere - ocean cockpit has a much better fit for a small paddler than the keyhole. Very different reverse hard chine w. semi-arched hull (I can barely type it much less explain it) some loathe and some love it.
There are some touring kayaks built snugger which
come w. rudders:
Current Designs Oracle GTS 17’ w. rudder.
for something longer:
Current Designs Solstice GTS 17’7" w. rudder.
CD Nomad GTS is over 18 feet and 21.25 on beam but has a depth (non HV) of 13.75" which to me anyway is too tall for a small paddler - catches the wind and interferes w. stroke.
Guess you could think about leaving the 16’6" Suka on the board as well. She is longer than many of the other small paddler choices and has a definite V hull which tracks very well and with a strong paddler could cover ground. I liked the slight rounding of the decks to give extra space while still staying low enough to be aerodynamic, and the hatches which are ovals w. rectangular rounded corners for storing actual camping gear. At my size the Suka would be about as much “expedition size” as I could handle.
a good idea many reps, at least in our region, are travelling across states in regular loops between shops, symposia, trade shows and on the water demos. They will often bring a specifically requested boat to a body of water pretty close to a seriously interested person.
Do bear in mind these guys are on the move and are burning up time and gas like any of us. Work with them, keep your schedule flexible and you may be able to demo the kayak you covet!
How fast? Ellesmere can be fast, also crabs in wind. Not sure where this habit lands the boat on the speedy scale especially compared to a Silhouette.
The Silhouette has more hull speed at many points on the scale than most out there, so finding another non-racing boat tuned for smaller paddlers that is as fast may be a problem. But I think the Tempest 165 comes in respectably in the middle of the pack.
Ellesmere will probably feel too big I briefly demoed one. Although narrow enough, it felt tall on me. Now since I am smaller than the OP, it might be OK. She’d have to demo it herself to find out.
Agree w. you the ocean cockpit was the only way the fit worked for me. The keyhole is comparatively huge.
Regardless of cockpit, the foredeck is too high and broad for me and my stroke angle. It could be a fine kayak for the woman who asked a few posts above for longer tourers if she is a bit taller and weighs more than me. If she is our height pikabike I totally agree.
kayak for petite paddler I’m 5’2" and 109 lbs. I paddle an Anas Acuta and love it. Been paddling it for about 5 years. It has an ocean cockpit and though not terribly fast, it isn’t a dog either. I did fiberglass a knee tube in and that makes it even more snug of a fit. Great boat for a small woman in my opinion and one of the “sexiest” (whatever that means) boats ever. ws
My partner is 5’6", 125lbs and slim. Her top choices after a lot of investigating and demos were (with documented weight weight ranges in parenthesis, for whatever they’re worth)