If…
If “any” group needs to tow an extra boat of “any” type to accomodate their load of beer; they might want to consider staying home, and drinking.
It would be safer, and the people you would have encountered on the drunken trip will probably be very happy your group was a no show.
Besides, you don’t want “your families” to miss out on all the fun.
BOB
votes bad idea
what if the current/wind takes the pack canoe and pushes it around in front of you and it ends up making your boat fishtail stern 1st down the river !! or the towed boat gets hung up and flips you under. where you going to tie off the towline ? to you or to the tow boat? bad, bad idea if you decide to try this on the river , bring a very, very sharp knife to cut the towline in a heartbeat if necessary. i was recently on a trip where we pulled a pak 'yak behind another kayak on a calm,but long ( 3 miles ) sheltered lake…gets very tiring ,fast, paddling for 2 boats. a couple of the other paddlers rode “shotgun” on either side of the towed boat in case it needed to be cut away in a hurry. this would have never worked on a river.
Not a good
idea. I often tow a SOT to carry firewood to a campsite on a slow, open stretch of river (upstream). No matter how it’s tied (long / short)it’s a real PITA. If this rig was going down stream, trying to dodge rocks or whatever, it would be big trouble in a hurry. Beverages and gear don’t do you any good at the bottom of the river and chances are, that’s where thet’d end up.
not just for beverages…
The pack canoe is not just for adult beverages, but for extras like camp chairs, and maybe a little firewood. Still with weight capacities of around 900 lbs. I see no reason why the manned canoes won’t be enough. They are going to have a fun time when it comes to portaging all that stuff.
I did mention a few months ago, when we started planning the details of they trip, that they were going to have to convert to whiskey. That was a no-go.
I am going to do my best to get those facts across, and I think once they see how much they can load no just in theory, but in practice, that the extra canoe will be left behind.
I have an idea!
Get together on a weekend and have them try and portage all the gear they envision bringing PLUS the boats AND beer. Maybe have them walk around their homes a few times for practice with their packs on. I am sure they will reconsider the whiskey then.
Problem solved
– Last Updated: Jun-16-09 9:22 AM EST –
Powdered Beer.
http://www.firebox.com/product/2313/Powdered-Beer
:D
unmanned aqualine drone
Don’t you have more paddlers than boats anyway? Like 5 paddlers in 3 boats and you’re thinking about adding a 4th boat for supplies? Why not just have take a guy out of one of the tandems to paddle the 4th boat and put your best paddler solo in the overloaded tandem – even assign the guy in the SOT to help him out, if need be. I realize this makes it harder to pass the spliff around, but I guarantee you that will be easier than handling a boat with nobody in it.
I’ve done a few relatively short one man/2 boats trips. It’s workable if you’re content to go slow. The key is, instead of a line between the boats, make one end fast to the other boat, leaving only enough slack to let them turn relative to each other. A short board with two holes is helpful. Then run a line from the far end of the unmanned boat to a thwart near you, with a lot of slack in it – this line should lay on top of everything else so that it stays in the boat, but so you can lift it off if needed and exrt force directly on the far end of the towed craft. You may never need this line but it’s helpful in some circumstances, however, be careful that it doesn’t snag up. Basically, it’s trial and error learning how to do it, and what seems impossible at first soon becomes just devilishly tricky.
Reply to Memphis
Yes, I mentioned soloing the extra canoe, and not taking my kayak if they think they need the extra space.
Would really like to take the kayak though. This river is actually better suited for kayaking.
priorities
Although you are apparently in denial that the extra boat is for hauling booze, the very fact that so much thought has been given to increased capacity to make sure there is plenty of it (the booze) should give you pause. Doesn’t make any difference whether you put the beverages in the extra canoe or put the essentials there - the fact is that the drinks are being made a priority to the degree that someone is willing to compromise safe boat handling.
I’m hardly one to tell someone how to choose friends, but you might want to give some thought to that.
?
What’s wrong with towing a small canoe full of beer and extra supplies?? I’ve done it many times. It’s only hard if you dont know proper paddle technique. Ya know there are classes for the majority on here, that dont know how to paddle. Bunch of old ladies telling him not to tow a “mule” canoe.
teach us then…
The OP states…“We are taking a multi-day canoe trip down a river that at times has fast water, some rapids, deadfall trees, and hairpin turns.”
So tell us, mjflores, what is the proper technique for safely towing your “mule canoe” on such a trip? Do I need a Coleman for this? BTW - if it involves lengths of rope strung between the boats, I ain’t buyin’.
Please, oh please…
– Last Updated: Jun-16-09 9:37 PM EST –
After the trip; please post some photos & a trip report.
Particularly photos of the tow boat rig, going down some rapids, with a boat full of "gear", strung out behind on a rope.
I'd really like to see how you negotiate downed trees & strainers with that outfit.
BOB
:^)
P.S. Make sure that "everyone" takes their turn piloting the tow rig. That will most likely squelch anyone suggesting such an idea in the future.
Big canoe
A Triper XL is a fine canoe that will carry you and all the kegs you need down the river. It will maneuver better, be much more stable, and be easier to paddle than any towing arrangement.
Esquif makes a big one now too, and there is the Clipper Mackenzie, Wenonah Itasca, and Bell Northshore if you want to go composite.
I sold my Tripper XL because, as good as it was, I just never found the need to paddle for 3 months without a re-supply. Even a standard Tripper has so much capacity, that the weight people want to carry over the portages is almost always the limiting factor.
My vote is no for towing a supply ship.
they are starting to waver.
I think I am getting through to the other guys. I’m pretty sure I have the guy who said he would do the towing convinced that it would be a bad idea.
I do thank you all for the replies. I guess I didn’t post this question to get reprimanded. I didn’t much care for the comment about finding new friends. These are good guys, they are just normally car campers/canoers. This will be the first trip of this type for for a couple of them. Just like the first time I went to the BW, I am sure they will bring too much stuff.
kudos
Good for you, that’s your role as the more experienced (and better connected) paddler in the group, steer them straight.
And please forgive the minority of posters who don’t have any manners. I’m sure your buddies will be a lot of fun on the river. And, strange to say, even most of the obnoxious posters here turn out to be okay dudes once you get them on the water. They just have some kind of weird need to call attention to themselves on forums like this.
One final suggestion - one lazy afternoon, when ya’ll are camped out and maybe imbibing a little, why not set up a little competition? See who can set the best time over a pre-determined course paddling one boat while towing another.
“friends” comment
– Last Updated: Jun-17-09 10:28 AM EST –
bpneiman - please accept my apology for the comment on your friends. I didn't intend it to sound like a suggestion to find new ones, but I see how it could be taken as such. My intent was to get you and them to think about priorities. Poor and clumsy wording on my part...
I think you're doing good in assuming a "leadership" position, of sorts. Hope y'all have a good time.
It CAN be done safely
– Last Updated: Jun-17-09 11:06 AM EST –
We towed a canoe full of supplies (grill, firewood, food, adult beverages, etc.) on a large group kayaking trip once. It ONLY works if you have other boats attached to BOTH ends of the pack canoe and preferably a couple of boats nearby to monitor the tow, just in case. The rear boat gives you control in wind (a real issue on our trip) and prevents the canoe from overtaking the towing boat (the rear boat is like having a skeg on the pack boat, it's mainly there to keep it in line with the towing boats). Having two or more boats towing at the front ensures that you have more "engine" than "brake" (the rear boat) and distributes the workload. As with any towing situation, it is CRITICAL that all tow rigs can be release instantly if necessary.
While this method works well enough, given the option, I would carry all the gear in manned boats instead.
You did that trip…
You did that kayaking trip, with tow lines attached to multiple boats & also to a “gear barge”…
on a “river” with fast water, rapids, deadfall, and hairpin turns?
BOB
can you read?
op stated a river with fast water, hairpin turns, rapids, and deadfall (i’m thinking, strainers!)… and no cell coverage, and from the sounds of it, help would be pretty far away, if available…
towing a “pack” canoe on a lake or very slow river is one thing, towing under the stated conditions is very dangerous, to say the least…
i can’t believe anyone would recommend towing a canoe packed with dead weight under these circumstances! It goes against all safety recommendations out there!!!
mjflores, read the posts completely before answering (i’m hoping you didn’t read it completely anyway).
No one in their right mind should even think about towing in the OP’s stated conditions… While individuals may tempt fate willing, they should not recommend doing so to others…
but, read the OP’s stated conditions…
i can see your method working well on a large slow river or on a lake…
but, 3 boats roped to a pack canoe in swift water, hairpin turns, rapids, and deadfalls (strainers)…
that still sounds like a recipe for disaster to me…