That is interesting. Thank you for the update. If I may ask, why do you have little doubt that you would get a refund? I looked through their purchase agreement and saw that there is a 90-day refund period, after which there presumably is no refund. Did they indicate something else to you in their message?
@acadia said:
why do you have little doubt that you would get a refund?
Nothing of the sort was discussed. It’s just my educated guess based on good consumer relations and demand exceeding supply.
@Sparky961 said:
So I’m beginning to see what @worldtraveler was talking about. Whether it’s quite as bad as was described, we’ll see.
Yes indeed. It looks like @worldtraveler is describing something others have seen:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nolin/trak-20-the-ultimate-touring-kayak/comments
@Sparky961 I highly recommend joining the team 2.0 backers and owners group on Facebook. That’s the only place I managed to gain any information about new delays.
There are also people chatting about their new boats, assembly and the trips they are taking.
I’m sure that since this kayak has parts sourced in different countries. The political trade shenanigans will have an impact that will cause some delays.
I believe they did have an problem sourcing Aluminum for a bit. I believe that hurdle was met and was cleared for now. They had closed ordering for awhile but now they are back up and running.
World trade is a roller coaster and world product sourcing must be a nightmare at this time.
TRAK 2.0s are out there. I saw one last weekend, at the Ocean’s 19 symposium. She has had it, about 3-4 months. Her backer number, was in the 30s. She seemed to be pleased, with the kayak.
I was happy to see that on the water at Oceans '19. She seemed very happy with it, and spoke well of the company as a whole.
Trak is launching a new colour scheme for 2020 - black and blue. Hopefully, they are catching up on production. I still don’t have a confirmation on my delivery date…
@techbeaver said:
Trak is launching a new colour scheme for 2020 - black and blue. Hopefully, they are catching up on production. I still don’t have a confirmation on my delivery date…
Nor do I. I told them their colours were ugly when I ordered. I went with yellow but asked them to omit the clashing cyan chevron graphics on the bow. Time will tell if all goes well with this request.
I’m ok with the base colors, though they could do better with those too. It’s the screen printed graphic colours that aren’t a great choice. They mentioned the possibility of custom screen printing but it was sounding like it would end up being prohibitively expensive.
@Sparky961 I’ve just been notified of another delay it will be spring of 2020 or later for me. If you’re still within your refund period I would have a long hard think about your boat. I’ve unfortunately realized in another year I won’t be able to actually use a kayak due to my work. A total bummer.
@worldtraveler said:
If you’re still within your refund period I would have a long hard think about your boat.
This might be relevant: BBB complaint.
@acadia said:
@worldtraveler said:
If you’re still within your refund period I would have a long hard think about your boat.This might be relevant: BBB complaint.
I’ve read their pre-purchase agreement. Two choices: prepay the $3,599 price or make a “nonrefundable” deposit of $1,800 for a kayak that may not be shipped until 10 months from the date of your order. Or later, as appears to be the case.
You get 90 days to cancel the order and (allegedly) get a refund but it must be in writing and received by Trak before 90 days from your order. If not:
“No Return/Refund. Other than the provision under Ninety Day Cancellation, you acknowledge and agree that you will not assert any right to cancel your purchase or obtain a refund AFTER the Deposit or Payment has been completed.”
The manufacturer is required to do nothing but build and ship your kayak whenever it gets around to it.
No protection for the consumer in that agreement, unfortunately.
Do they include swamp land in that agreement? That is a terrible consumer model!
I am aware of at least one early buyer who reserved a Trak 2.0 and then decided he did not want to wait and sold his place in the production line to another person for a couple hundred less than his deposit. I was offered the option to buy it myself but had already spent too much on other boats at that point.
I have ordered a Trak 2.0 kayak in the beginning of January 2019 and the estimated time of delivery to Europe at that time was July 2019. Recently I got an update on the delivery date that says that it probably will ship in spring 2020.
When I had a look at their website today the estimated delivery date for newly made pre-orders is may 2020 (https://www.trakkayaks.com/products/blackblue-2-0-ultimate-touring-kayak). That ETA happens to be also spring 2020, which is strange for me because it seems that new customers would receive their kayaks at the same time as the customers who were waiting over a year for theirs. It looks like if the company tried to collect money from potential customers with promises they know they cannot fulfill (based on their past experience).
Right now i wish i had not pre-ordered and payed the trak 2.0 but just bought one at a shop when available.
@OnraAros said:
I have ordered a Trak 2.0 kayak in the beginning of January 2019 and the estimated time of delivery to Europe at that time was July 2019. Recently I got an update on the delivery date that says that it probably will ship in spring 2020.
When I had a look at their website today the estimated delivery date for newly made pre-orders is may 2020 (https://www.trakkayaks.com/products/blackblue-2-0-ultimate-touring-kayak). That ETA happens to be also spring 2020, which is strange for me because it seems that new customers would receive their kayaks at the same time as the customers who were waiting over a year for theirs. It looks like if the company tried to collect money from potential customers with promises they know they cannot fulfill (based on their past experience).
Right now i wish i had not pre-ordered and payed the trak 2.0 but just bought one at a shop when available.
Well I doubt that the new orders are actually going to cut in front of you. My guess is that they just keep giving everyone the same “it’s coming” line. and can’t meet their production needs.
That long of a delay to get an expensive kayak. Sounds like they may not be a very strong company or they probably would be figuring out how to make production keep up with demand. Pretty key in success for a manufacturing company.
@SharpsRifle said:
Well I doubt that the new orders are actually going to cut in front of you. My guess is that they just keep giving everyone the same “it’s coming” line. and can’t meet their production needs.
I fully agree with that ^
I’m frustrated and feeling helpless with Trak Kayaks.
Following the email exchange below, I’ve received absolutely NO COMMUNICATION WHATSOEVER from Trak. I was clearly promised an email update, and I even checked Facebook from time to time despite my intense dislike and distaste for the service.
The thing is, I don’t care as much about the delay as I do the lack of transparency and proactive communication. My boat’s going to be delayed my another 6 months? FINE. Just F*ing tell me that!
If you were in my position, having paid in full up front and still really wanting one of these boats, what would you do?
============================================================================
Update ETA?
(Sparky961)
Aug 9, 2019, 9:32 AM
to Jason
Hi Jason,
Are we still on “trak” for September delivery? Can you narrow it down any?
Thanks
(Sparky961)
Aug 14, 2019, 10:09 AM
to nolin, Jason
I’m sure you have lots to do right now, but please don’t ignore me. I’ve been part of some recent online discussion about how your communication is great before the sale but then you leave people hanging waiting for delivery.
I hope you can prove them wrong.
Jason Guindon jason@trakkayaks.com
Aug 14, 2019, 2:20 PM
to me
Hey (Sparky961),
You’re right, we are super busy lads – bad communication is bad communication, though, so you have my apologies on behalf of our team on that front. I indeed try to keep up with all of the inquiries and requests for info that come in to us, but I do miss things at times. Nolin tries to send out updates as regularly as possible, as well, but those sometimes come out slower than we’d like. Thanks for being a good sport about everything, (Sparky961) – we really appreciate your attitude.
Nolin is actually putting together some updates for the community right now, and plans to send them out before the end of the week here. I will say upfront that September will unfortunately be missed, but Nolin plans to make it up for people who are affected by the delay. Please hold tight a few more days for him to send his updates, and then we can follow up next week.
By the way – the best way to guarantee a response + personal service from me is actually book into my calendar for a call: https://calendly.com/trak/15min?month=2019-08 please book a call if you want to share your viewpoint after reading Nolin’s update this week.
Best regards,
Jason Guindon
Operations & Pilot Program Leader
Direct: +1.403.723.0077 x9
North America Toll Free: 888.355-2925 x9
jason@trakkayaks.com
(Sparky961)
Aug 21, 2019, 2:09 PM
to Jason
Jason,
How will this update you speak of be delivered? Do you have an update on the update?
Thanks,
(Sparky961)
Aug 26, 2019, 4:27 PM
to nolin, Jason
You are quickly losing my confidence.
This should have been a simple answer pointing me in the direction of where I can monitor for updates.
Jason Guindon jason@trakkayaks.com
Aug 26, 2019, 4:40 PM
to me, Nolin
Hey (Sparky961),
Very sorry – I am not trying to test your confidence. My assessment that an update was imminent at the time of your email on the 14th was obviously wrong.
Nolin is the source for all updates related to production and deliveries, and we expected a relevant update to come out by now. Nolin is out of our offices at this time and not connected to email, so he won’t be able to provide the update until his return to the office.
We expect him back for early September, and I would say that his update will be distributed shortly upon his return.
(Sparky961)
Aug 26, 2019, 5:21 PM
to Jason, Nolin
Still missing the answer, Jason. Will the update be via email, Facebook, telegraph, horseback messenger, singing telegram? I don’t do Facebook and want to ensure that I’m not left in the dark.
I would really like to leave you alone so you can get back to your “real” work, but also do not want to miss out on relevant information.
Jason Guindon jason@trakkayaks.com
Aug 26, 2019, 6:02 PM
to me, Nolin
Nolin plans to travel around dressed as a minstrel to sing paeans of kayak production and delivery
That, plus an email. A facebook announcement will also be made, but he always sends one by email as well.
I appreciate that you care about my time, but it doesn’t change that we owe you an update.
(Sparky961)
Aug 26, 2019, 6:07 PM
to Jason, Nolin
Thanks, Jason. I’m well aware that my emails won’t make anything go faster (or at least not better). I will await the update, with admittedly less patience than previously.
Now get back to work and make some stuff happen… 
@Sparky961 I am on the same situation, although I made only the downpayment. My messages have been totally ignored. I am not a Facebook user. I tried to call the company yesterday with no answer, I need to try again next week.
What makes me mad is that Trak is still selling boats with a 6 months delivery commitment while it is clear that they are way behind. When reading your email chain, I couldn’t stop to ask myself how hard it is to say “I’m sorry, we are having this X problem and your delivery is now expected on Y day” instead of buying time talking about a mysterious magical announcement who knows where and when.
"Nolin is out of our offices at this time and not connected to email, "… I hope Nolin is not sick or worse, however, isn’t anybody else able to run the show? This statement made me really worry.
At this moment I am struggling between taking action to get my money back or keeping the hope that one day I will get the kayak that I want so much. I have been thinking about filing a claim through the credit card company or even engaging in a lawsuit - the clauses on the contract are so ridiculously unfavourable to a customer that they would not hold in most courts, especially when the company is still scamming new customers with the same false promises on new sales.
Please keep posting any updates.
@techbeaver said:
At this moment I am struggling between taking action to get my money back or keeping the hope that one day I will get the kayak that I want so much. I have been thinking about filing a claim through the credit card company or even engaging in a lawsuit - the clauses on the contract are so ridiculously unfavourable to a customer that they would not hold in most courts, especially when the company is still scamming new customers with the same false promises on new sales.
Very disturbing indeed. Aside from the very appropriate ethical consideration you raised, and aside from the larger question of whether or not your boat will actually get built, the following questions are worth considering:
When you eventually need a repair (folders have lots of moving parts), are you confident that this company will still be around to service your boat? If the company folds, will the boat keep its resale value? And if the company lasts, will their warranty service be any better than their sales service?
If the answer to any of these questions is “no”, then getting your money back seems like the wisest option to me. I used to own a Folbot. That company is gone. I know people with Feathercrafts. That company too is gone. These are real issues that affect folder-owners because you can’t fix a folder by simply slapping on a fiberglass patch.