Worldtraveler I agree, and have been watching this since the first. I saw that first there seemed to be stuff posted of just a few more available for the next time frame of a manufacturing run and then that seemed to disappear from the postings.
Not really sure but looked like limited runs. It’s actually a solvent way to do this type of offering. Get money ahead of buying the materials. Only buy the colors in the quantity’s that are ordered. No warehousing, No inventory and very little left over material in any one color.
It does however leave the customer rather nervous and watching for a notice that their kayak is on it’s way. {for many months}
It does allow color changes from run to run without leftover inventory. It should allow the company to remain solvent. Because they only sell what they produce and only produce what they have already sold. And know all the costs at each run cycle. {I’m just guessing that this is the business plan, but it seems to be}
The comparisons to Novorca and to Onno are not really valid since both had a divorce and one had a child custody battle {with legal implications} as part of the financial woes and a contributing factor. {TRAK has neither}
If TRAK doesn’t over invest trying to keep up with the orders ,{as Novorca did} then they should stay solvent . As far as going somewhere else…not very many options anymore if you want this style of kayak with the feature to travel.
It doesn’t make the wait any easier, but I doubt anyone will have been left hanging without receiving a kayak in time. Not sure if all this latest round of tariffs, etc will affect the finances of this production…I’m sure it doesn’t help since production is not in Canada and I’m not sure where all the parts and materials are sourced.
The process (of not manufacturing high priced items until an order is confirmed) has gradually become more of a standard in many industries, particularly those with little competition or those with proprietary products. My career was in the commercial and industrial construction industry and over the 35 years I was in that business I saw turnarounds for shipping of orders for things like electrical switchgear and large mechanical skids go from a few weeks to a year or more. Even parts for critical equipment are often not stocked anywhere anymore. Everything has a lead time that is often tied to and complicated by fixed “lean” production schedules and lengthy overseas shipping.
One of the basic lean manufacturing measures is On Time Delivery but it apparently applies to high demand industries.
Regardless, lead times of months indicate poor planning .
I spent 40 years in a business that lived and died on OTD.
This was a Kick-starter, crowd funded business. {the last few years} Not the same game as established industries. still just getting going with this. The original TRAK 1600 was done before TRAK changed hands so the dates back to 2006 date is a little misleading… TRAK is doing this new format and we should be glad they are. It should insure their survival. {I’ve been watching , because I eventually could see having one}
This described business model is a very slippery slope. Even in multi-million dollar projects, I see money mishandled and owners/contractors/subcontractors paying the price. It’s easy to get away with, legally. But regardless of legality, it is as wrong as it sounds. Regardless of reasoning, if you are out of funding, the best way to get more cash is sales. This is where an accurate balance sheet would tell you a lot. Such as whether your cash will be used to meet current obligations, and not the product to be produced for you. And your order immediately penciled in as long-term liability, with corresponding cash needs that will have to be met with another source of funding, such as hoping for future sales, and just hoping to make up the difference somewhere down the line.
This is where it is nice to know a bank is willing to extend credit to meet up-front cash needs of a business. Still no guarantees of business success, but at least they did some financial research before handing over cash.
Up-front payments obtained with the help of over-promise, followed by under-deliver, is a pretty tough model to achieve success under. If it really is a manufacturing bottleneck, that’s still not great, but of less concern. However, over-promising, at the very least, causes concern about cash flow creating the bottleneck.
It would crush me to think I ever posted something that hurt the kayaking industry. I really hope they can and do succeed.
I also know that an unsuccessful competitor can do more damage to your business and industry than a successful one. Even given an end result of a great product, but sold at too good of a price to boost sales to meet cash needs, the gal/guy pricing on the up-and-up can lose too much business, with the result of 2 failed businesses. If priced in a way that enabled survival, it wouldn’t have cost the up-and-up person as many sales.
Unfortunately, in the real world, it’s not always as innocent as this. Salaries, bonuses, and any variety of ownership withdrawals can become questionable. This is where it can be legal use of cash, but still every bit as wrong as it sounds.
So, the email I sent on the 9th was not answered as of this morning.
I sent another one this morning briefly mentioning this thread (but not linking to it) and received a response four hours later. What did it say? Well, the delivery is definitely “delayed”. How much? Don’t know yet. I was asked to wait patiently for an update that is to be broadcast early next week.
So I’m beginning to see what @worldtraveler was talking about. Whether it’s quite as bad as was described, we’ll see.
I have little doubt that if I asked for a refund I’d get one. But I want a boat, not my money back. It is probably advantageous to them for a few people to cancel because then they can satisfy others that have been waiting longer. Too many boats to sell isn’t their problem.
For now I will remain patient. But that can’t last forever.
That is interesting. Thank you for the update. If I may ask, why do you have little doubt that you would get a refund? I looked through their purchase agreement and saw that there is a 90-day refund period, after which there presumably is no refund. Did they indicate something else to you in their message?
@Sparky961 I highly recommend joining the team 2.0 backers and owners group on Facebook. That’s the only place I managed to gain any information about new delays.
There are also people chatting about their new boats, assembly and the trips they are taking.
I’m sure that since this kayak has parts sourced in different countries. The political trade shenanigans will have an impact that will cause some delays.
I believe they did have an problem sourcing Aluminum for a bit. I believe that hurdle was met and was cleared for now. They had closed ordering for awhile but now they are back up and running.
World trade is a roller coaster and world product sourcing must be a nightmare at this time.
TRAK 2.0s are out there. I saw one last weekend, at the Ocean’s 19 symposium. She has had it, about 3-4 months. Her backer number, was in the 30s. She seemed to be pleased, with the kayak.
Trak is launching a new colour scheme for 2020 - black and blue. Hopefully, they are catching up on production. I still don’t have a confirmation on my delivery date…
@techbeaver said:
Trak is launching a new colour scheme for 2020 - black and blue. Hopefully, they are catching up on production. I still don’t have a confirmation on my delivery date…
Nor do I. I told them their colours were ugly when I ordered. I went with yellow but asked them to omit the clashing cyan chevron graphics on the bow. Time will tell if all goes well with this request.
I’m ok with the base colors, though they could do better with those too. It’s the screen printed graphic colours that aren’t a great choice. They mentioned the possibility of custom screen printing but it was sounding like it would end up being prohibitively expensive.
@Sparky961 I’ve just been notified of another delay it will be spring of 2020 or later for me. If you’re still within your refund period I would have a long hard think about your boat. I’ve unfortunately realized in another year I won’t be able to actually use a kayak due to my work. A total bummer.
I’ve read their pre-purchase agreement. Two choices: prepay the $3,599 price or make a “nonrefundable” deposit of $1,800 for a kayak that may not be shipped until 10 months from the date of your order. Or later, as appears to be the case.
You get 90 days to cancel the order and (allegedly) get a refund but it must be in writing and received by Trak before 90 days from your order. If not:
“No Return/Refund. Other than the provision under Ninety Day Cancellation, you acknowledge and agree that you will not assert any right to cancel your purchase or obtain a refund AFTER the Deposit or Payment has been completed.”
The manufacturer is required to do nothing but build and ship your kayak whenever it gets around to it.
No protection for the consumer in that agreement, unfortunately.
