There seems to be a lot of pent-up anger about the insanely overdue delivery dates of the Kickstarter Trak 2.0 kayaks. I can’t say it isn’t justified, but my experience with the company has largely been pleasant, despite the ongoing frustration. Got my boat about three weeks ago.
It is a marvel of engineering.
It took them a while, but at some point during the wait, the company came to understand the need to be more communicative. Most of the delays were attributed to manufacturing/engineering issues, which, according to the company, ultimately resulted in a better product. Their explanations seemed sincere.
I haven’t paddled mine yet so I can comment on the boat’s performance. Set up on our dining room floor it is a beautiful (mine is a deep red) boat.
As a skin-on-frame kayak, steps are required that you don’t have in a kayak with bulkheads, i.e. inflatable storage/flotation bags and the need for an aquasock.
After assembling and breaking it down several times I’m less intimidated by the engineering. Still, at the end of a long paddle, the breakdown is going to be exhausting.
Whereas you might be able to check the Trak 2.0 on an airplane, it’s going to cost you. The rolling bag with folded kayak weighs 62 pounds and the H+W+D is 72 inches.
The complexity of the boat is worrisome — get sand or mud on one of the three jacks and you might have problems, same for the shock-cord tubing that makes up the boat’s framing — but if you want to travel to the far reaches and take your kayak with you, this may be your best option.
All that said, I’m hopeful — maybe even optimistic — I’ll have great paddling experiences in this kayak.
While I greatly admire the Trak 2.0 (encountered a pair of them in real life last year at a local lake and got to talk to one of their “pilots” about the boat and watch them break one down) and admit to some interest in owning one, I have to take issue with Valsdad with his comment about the 2.0 being “your best option” for overseas travel. PakBoat still makes competent and seaworthy folding kayaks that are half the weight of a Trak 2.0. Their Quest 150 is 31 pounds and is reasonably easy to set up and break down. I have the slightly smaller Quest 135 which is 28 pounds and I can pack the entire boat PLUS all my gear including a 4 piece paddle, PFD and all my safety and paddling clothing including hard sole boots, in a rolling duffel that is UNDER the maximum unified dimensions and 50 pound weight limit for domestic and overseas baggage allowance with no excess fees. I took my smaller (24 pound) Pakboat Puffin to the UK two years ago that same way and paid NO baggage fees, though I flew coach on a discounted ticket. I was only paddling small inland rivers so that 12’ boat was fine for that trip. But I have no hesitance in taking the 13’ 8" Quest in coastal waters – it performs very comparably to the legendary and now (unfortunately) extinct Feathercraft Wisper sea kayak (I own one of those too.) Even the Wisper, which is dimensionally similar to the Trak 2.0, is only 37 pounds.
Yes, the Trak boats are cleverly engineered and impressive in the water, but they are still heavy and technically problematic.
And (not a minor point) the Pakboat XT and Quest models are 1/3 of the price of a Trak kayak.
Thanks for the link. I wasn’t aware of its existence. That would have been a good thing for TRAK to let everyone who’s “waiting patiently” know about.
I see the email is marked “confidential” at the top. I will not be posting the contents at this time, but I encourage someone else less cautious to do so.
Do you figure the order number matches the invoice number? If this is the case and given past performance, I’m unlikely to receive my boat until late next year.
@Sparky961 I had the same thoughts regarding the invoice number - mine is on the 2100s. Trak got 172 backers on the Kickstarter campaign and, per the email, all remaining Kickstarter backers will get their boats this year, along with pre-orders on the 1800s and 1900s. Therefore I would be around #200 on the line. During my phone call, they mentioned a “big shipment” expected at the beginning of next year to cover hundreds of orders, so I guess that’s how they are estimating the Spring/2020 delivery. Let’s hope the supply chain hiccups are over.
Thanks, Willowleaf. I’ll educate myself on the PakBoat. I’m a great fan of simplicity, and the Trak 2.0, impressive though it may be, is anything but simple. In its defense the Trak, it appears to be an efficient, seaworthy touring kayak. Will be interested to see how the PakBoat compares in that regard. And, not to quibble over semantics, but I wrote “this may be your best option” for travel to the far reaches.
Point taken (on your qualification of “may be.”)
I would never say that the Pakboats are as sleek as a Trak – the Traks are impressively stiff and probably perform like a high end composite. Folders like Feathercraft and Pakboat are more flexible – though that does increase drag somewhat, the flexibility and the “give” in the fabric skin means that they feel different in the water and are more forgiving in rough water since they absorb some of the wave force rather than ricochetting off them. But the longer and narrower folders are very seaworthy – oceans have been crossed in them and I’ve known outfitters who use them in Alaska and Patagonia. I’ve paddled my Feathercraft folders in the coastal Atlantic and Pacific and the Great Lakes.
In terms of simplicity, I imagine that emergency repairs in the field would be a lot easier with a Pakboat kayak than with a Trak. The keel adjusting pistons seem a weak link to me with the Traks and likely add to the excessive weight. I would be more tempted to buy a Trak myself if it did NOT have that feature. I think the design is good enough that most people would desire the boats without that novelty.
I actually wrote the company inquiring about the necessity of the jacks. Nolin wrote back saying the keel jack was essential, but they are developing ways to eliminate the two side jacks, which he said added about two pounds each. The jacks seem sturdy enough, though I don’t know how they will hold up once exposed to sand and mud. In theory the sea sock should insulate the jacks against exposure to such. Just looked at the assembly video for the Quest 150. Seems to be much more complicated than the Trak assembly
The Quest assembly seems complicated at first, but once you go through it a few times it becomes much more straightforward and automatic. I have not watched any videos (there were none available when I bought the Quest 4 years ago) but had found the written instructions that came with the boat really terrible. Fortunately there were a couple of Quest owners on the foldingkayaks.com forums who helped me through the first assembly. After that I shot a series of close up shots of each step in the assembly and posted them on Flickr with my own text instructions to help others who were flummoxed by the vagueness of some of the manufacturer’s directions. I shared that with a number of new owners and it’s still available.
The problem with the Pakboat assembly manuals is that I think they are written by Alv (the designer) who knows the boats so well that I think he has trouble understanding the perspective of a person who is new to them.
Once I knew all the steps and could lay out all the components to make the process easy, I have always been able to assemble the various Pakboats I have owned in less than half an hour. I can set up the smallest 12’ Puffin in 20 minutes if I am feeling energetic. Since the Pakboats (like many traditional folders) require inflation of sponson tubes to do the final skin tightening, that adds to the assembly time. So, yes, it takes about twice as long to set up a Pakboat as a Trak. But what’s 15 or even 20 minutes in the big picture? I don’t set up and break down my boats every time I use them. My Quest has been set up since last May and currently hangs in the basement rafters. I transport it on Thule J-racks for local outings. And, of course the big difference: the cost of a Trak is 2 1/2 to 3 times that of a Pakboat.
Another feature of the Quest that the Trak can’t offer is the ability to use it as an open boat, without the deck (a nice option in warm weather and if one wants to fish or take along a dog). And when used with the deck for multi-day trips, access to packed gear under the deck is very easy since it can be peeled back from either end. Pakboat’s XT line can’t be used without the deck BUT several models can be converted from a tandem to a solo by switching the decks (seats are moveable). Pakboats can also be safely used in moderate whitewater, not something I would attempt in a Trak.
In the end, they are different boats and suitability is going to be up to the needs (and budget) of the buyer. Pakboats are cheaper, technologically simpler and substantially more portable (lighter). Traks are quicker to set up and higher performance.
By the way (a bit off the topic of kayaks) Pakboat also makes folding canoes. I am only mentioning that because they offer an option to modify the keel line of a couple of their canoe models so you can tune the performance to conditions, as Trak does. With the 15’ and 16.5’ Pakcanoes you can get two different sets of ribs so that you can convert a wider bottomed flatwater touring hull to a deeper, narrower white water profile. Their canoes so modified have run the rapids of the Grand Canyon.
I did just check the Pakboat site and it looks like they have stopped production of the XT line and are focusing on the Puffin and Quest models for now. Pakboat lost a lot of stock in a major warehouse fire within the past year which may have forced them to do some streamlining. I’ve often wondered if Feathercraft’s unfortunate demise a few years ago was hastened along by their offering too wide of an array of costly new models instead of sticking with and refining the basic fleet that had been the core of their business.
Appreciate your thoughtful (and thorough) reply, willowleaf. Cost is less a concern (since I already have the Trak) than portability and weight, both categories the Pakboat seems to win hands down. And setup time is not a big issue. I suppose it’s possible to assemble a Trak in 10 minutes as advertised, but 20 to 30 minutes is a more reasonable estimate. The deciding factor, then, would be performance, a category in which I expect the Trak at 16’x22” would dominate. I’m curious, too, if Pakboat recommends use of a sea sock and some sort of inflatable flotation bags fore and aft?
I’ve never looked into whether Pakboat “recommends” use of flotation bags or sea sock because I have always had and used both (I started kayaking with a Feathercraft Kahuna folder 18 years ago and they came with custom float bags and a sea sock). I’m guessing they do mention float bags but they don’t sell their own version. I have never taken out a folder or my rigid skin on frame kayak without float bags fore and aft – it’s just part of the routine. Nor should a Trak be paddled without them.
I’ve always had a sea sock or two but have only used them a few times in cold or deep open water when I was going to be a ways from shore. Sea socks are kind of a pain, to be honest.
I’m late to the party, I see. Perhaps some of you have already received your TRAK in the meantime? I ordered my kayak in early June and unfortunately have been experiencing the same lack of communication. I was glad to find the Pre-Order Update Request link above. Why on earth did they not just send that to me already instead of giving me BS about “factory updates” over and over?!
I’m also scheduled for a Spring 2020 delivery now I see, but if this gets pushed back further (which I fear is more than likely) I shall have to change my summer plans.
Hopefully, it will be worth the wait. To people who find this thread afterwards and are thinking of ordering this kayak: beware!
Welcome to the community. No idea how folks here are doing with delivery. Guess we’ll see come spring.
Absolutely no change for me since the last update to this thread. No proactive communication from them, no communication from me because I know it’s a waste of my time.
If there were other companies offering a similar product with better customer service they would have my business.
I discovered this thread a little too late for it to influence my buying decision one way or the other. I placed my order a couple of weeks ago, all the money up front, and am now wondering if I’ve made a massive error.
I’m a UK customer, and was informed that TRAK wait until they receive a number of orders and then ship over here in bulk to reduce costs to all involved, including the buyer. Totally fair enough, though my worry, having read this thread with is mounting concern, is that I’m going to be waiting even longer than most people…if the company lasts long enough to fulfil its obligations of course, because let’s face it, they don’t appear to be building customer trust here do they, sadly.
Initial response via email, prior to purchase, was exceptionally quick and detailed (as per other reports in this thread). I’m going to try asking some questions now that they have my fully paid order, and see if the response is quite so fast and helpful. Hopefully They’ve got their house in order regards honest communications - watch this space.
I do appreciate that they are a small company with all the difficulties implicit to that scenario, so I’m not unsympathetic to them, but honesty with your customers has to be paramount, and a lack of such will understandably raise concern.
I guess everybody who is waiting is a bit nervous. Trying to be optimistic, Trak seems to be getting their game plan straight. The last update on Feb/07/2020 raised some supply chain issues, but the situation is better than it was back in October/2019. The company has a decent history in the industry, so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were just overwhelmed by an unexpected number of orders. Not an excuse for making false promises though.
Hopefully, I’ll get my boat this summer.
At least their production is in the Phillipines, which has not been affected yet, as far as I know, by the disruptions in commerce and trade movement caused by the corona virus epidemic. But I wonder if the public health crisis will affect their supply lines, since China is such a huge source of materials anymore.
I luckily received my Trak at the end of last year, but will not use it until later this year.
Like many of you, it was frustrating not hearing from Trak about the delays. The thing that really concerns me is if you look at their emails, they mention that it is imperative that they continue to sell kayaks and trips for the foreseeable future, and if they do not do this it impacts all customers (people who are waiting for their kayak and those who have them because of support, parts, and warranties). This to me worries me because it seems like they have a cash flow problem. I truly hope that I am wrong because as an owner I do not want to have the company go out of business.
The delays and lack of communication truly worry me though. I hope that they can solve all their problems soon and that everyone gets what they ordered in a reasonable time.
Okay folks, so further to my last post, in which I said I would contact Trak: I received a prompt reply that was pretty minimal on spiel, and admitted their part in many of the issues people have brought up. This is all good, and admirable, though as someone who thinks it is wise to consider all angles I must also say that I am still within my 90 day ‘cooling off period’, wherein I may ask for my money back.
Did this impact on my receipt of a detailed reply whilst many of you did not get anything? Who knows.
I will say that part of the email did describe an intention to communicate better with customers, and with addressing their concerns, so the immediate and fairly comprehensive reply I received could well be part of that new commitment. Let’s hope so.
Next I responded by asking Curtis, the bloke who wrote back, if I could reprint his email to me here (I didn’t specify the forum, just alluded to a group of concerned customers). He replied saying that the communication was between us, so he’d rather that I didn’t, which I shall of course honour, BUT that if I gave him the URL he would respond to you all here. That’s one option - the other one offered was to write to him directly and he’ll respond individually.
Up to you guys; do you want me to give him the location of this thread?
Unfortunately no amount of communication at this point can make up for the lack of proactive communication so far. I remain confident that the product is good but feel that unless the company can make up ground on it’s production AND STILL RETAIN HIGH QUALITY that they are doomed to fail or fizzle out into obscurity. Also unfortunately, if attempts are made to do exactly what I’ve just outlined they are almost certainly going to lose quality in the end product, or increase the already steep price. It’s a no-win situation.
Actually, the real solution (from a consumer perspective) would be to stop LYING to new customers about when they can expect to receive their goods. They must know damnn well that they can’t deliver within the time they’re saying, and they also know that if they tell people they’ll be waiting two years or so to get a boat that many (most?) won’t place an order.
Figure out a solution to THESE problems, keep me proactively informed, and then maybe I’ll start to forgive. Until then I remain a more-than-slightly bitter “waiter”.