Well I said I would come back when Costco got back to me…The official answer is Trak never replied to them as to when they would have stock and Costco was/is out of stock on the kayak. So, I got my money back and they cancelled the order, it sat for 9 days in “order received” status and when I called the very nice lady said that the order notes said they had contacted manufacturer several times and not heard back. She did say if I kept the order in place, I would eventually get it or a refund, but since we all know Trak wont ship for a year, I allowed her to cancel the order and got my credit within minutes on my credit card. It pretty much went as I thought it would and they would not have a boat for me, but was worth a try.
I will not wait a unknown amount of years with some con-company on a pyramid scheme having my money for all that time, if Trak would ship in 2-3 months I would be willing to wait, but with their shipping history, Trak is out of the question for me.
I am doing research on other boats, I saw a ORU at my local REI, really looks weird, but its in stock. They also had advanced elements inflatable that I liked but really didn’t want a inflatable and its reviews are mixed online. Wife and I looked at a 2017 Ford F-150 over the weekend, if we get that AND keep my S2000, getting rid of the S2000 is not a option, then I may get myself a Anas Acuta which was my first boat back in the late 1970s, loved that thing, even sank it once, luckily in 25ft of water so a quick dive with my scuba gear and it was back above the water I was young and stupid in those days.
I really wanted a small folding or skin on frame take apart or inflatable this time around, just to make it easy to haul around. Anyway…Costco is OUT.
Thanks for the update! Keep the S2000 for sure. I regret selling a couple of cars in the past that I probably will never see again ('76 BMW 2002, MB SLK 350, and a perfect '84 VW GTI).
Not answering calls from customers is a bad sign. Not answering calls from distributors is also bad, maybe worse.
I’m glad to see that a couple of posters on this thread have submitted reviews. @techbeaver even linked to this thread, which is incredibly helpful for prospective buyers.
Their recent deal with Level Six (free drysuit if you pay for the kayak up front) will cut into their margins. They must be in a cash flow crunch if they are willing to offer such a generous deal.
Willowleaf, actually, I did look into Pakboats, I like the saranac because it can be 2 people and one person, although as a one person it looks in pictures like the person is too far back. My wife has her own kayak but it might be fun sometimes to go together in same boat. Its down to between ORU and Pakboats, but this is getting off subject of Trak.
If you put some ballast (like several 2-liter soda bottles taped together and filled with water) in the bow of the tandem boat when using it solo it can allow you to paddle farther back in the stern without the boat wandering off track. Pakboat’s XT-17 and XT-19 can also be converted from solo to tandem but am not sure what the production is currently on those. That is a heavier duty frame and more capacity for cargo than the Puffin series – more similar to their PakCanoes.
I have the opportunity to buy a used Trak Seeker for $850 or a new Trak 2.0 for $1650. Assuming they are both in good shape, does anyone have any thoughts as to which would be a better option? Is the Trak 2.0 2x the kayak as the Seeker? Anyone have first hand experience?
I believe the main difference is weight.
The Seeker has heavier plastic ribs vs carbon ribs on the 2.0. The 2.0 ribs are also stiffer.
The Seeker jacks are heavier.
I remember reading somewhere that you could “upgrade” a Seeker with the new 2.0 ribs and jacks.
Maybe give a call to Trak. Just sound like you are about to buy one brand new and they will give all the attention of the world.
I spent 37 minutes on the phone with Trak yesterday, can you tell I really wanted one of these boats ?Just not willing to wait that long and I don’t trust their delivery expectations. Trak guy explained how the boat I bought at Costco (since cancelled because they don’t really have them, although they had a few at one time) got to Costco via a back door and that was never intended and we talked a lot about delivery times, he said they absolutely expect June 2021 delivery to be on time.
In the end we talked about the differences in Seeker vs. 2.0 and I purchased yesterday a used Seeker from some total stranger on the net, that was hard sending PayPal money to a total stranger from a advert on the web, but done and I have a tracking number. The guy at Trak said they have all the components in stock to make a Seeker into a 2.0, the skin is actually the same skin, just different coaming features (same shape and size) and the 2.0 frame will go right in if I want carbon fiber and some other upgrades.
By the way, I had a video chat with the guy I bought the Seeker from, I asked to do that so I could make sure he actually had it and not a picture he took on the net :). Then a pic was taken at the UPS store, so hopefully I don’t get 70lbs. of rocks I assume the UPS would not let him switch contents after the picture Trak guy said 2 years left on warranty and I can switch it to me once I have the boat, next Tuesday. Trak guy was VERY helpful even after I told him I was not buying a dream with a delivery of next year.
I suspected that those boats got to Costco via grey market. That pretty much confirms or at least strongly suggests that they did. I’m glad this is all working out for you.
Trak explained that Costco had a few Trak boats that got there via a back door.
I’m trying to work out how this went. Maybe Trak just finished prepaid boats for Jackie, Terrel, Paul, Mindy, Carol, Amy, Tom, Karl, George, and a handful of others. But mysterious “market” forces, gray market forces, took control, opened a back door, and before anyone knew what was really going on, Trak was unknowingly depositing more cash in the bank than would have been collected upon delivery to prepaid customers, but less than prepaid customers were paying overall.
Our boats got to Costco via a back door and that was never intended. At what point was it intended and by whom? Do they have an unpaid supplier or note that forced the issue? Presenting mysterious explanations like that does seem to fit. The takes on it are limitless.
Unintended through a back door. Lord have mercy.
Usually, when a commodity ends up in the grey market, it happens in one of two ways:
The commodity was sold to retailers in another market, and they chose to sell it to retailers/importers in another market because they could earn more that way.
The factory, which is subcontracted to produce the commodity, makes more items than ordered and sells those for its own profit.
Neither of these seem to fit here.
Re. 1:
If the Trak 2.0 was never sold to any retailers, it couldn’t have ended up in the grey market from them.
Re. 2:
If I have understood it correctly, the Trak 2.0 consists of parts from many subcontractors. So a single subcontractor would not be able to sell copies in the grey market.
geez, I didn’t think the exact details mattered which is why I said a “back door” and thought that would be enough. The Trak guy told me, they sold a good sized (didn’t mention exact number) quantity of boats to a resort South of the Border, when they delivered, the resort decided they wanted fewer of them and sold some of their boats to a man in the U.S. who then made a deal with Costco for those boats. That is what Trak told me and Trak did say even though the boats were undercutting Trak on price, they do cover those boats under warranty. After all, Trak got their money from the resort.
The Costco thing is OVER, it was a long time ago. I found a link that let me buy one of the boats and tried, Costco could not deliver and credited my credit card and its over. That link is no longer any good also, its done and finished and I am sorry I ever mentioned it here when I purchased the boat.
As to Greyheron who asked about a class action ? a class action on what ? they (both Costco and Trak) have done nothing wrong, yeah I think their business model is shady with pay up to a year up front and get delivered much later with possible many delays, but they tell you everything up front, they have done nothing wrong, there is no basis at all for any class or any action of any kind. And if I was told the truth, they are on time this time or at least they expect to be.
Shortly after the Costco issue came up, I emailed Nolin at Trak asking that he explain things to me. I honestly didn’t expect anything to come of it but he seemed to think it was worth a personal phone call.
We talked for quite a while and he gave me his version of events. I am satisfied for now with what I’ve been told, and I strongly suggested that he should reach out to the “community” with the explanation. So far I haven’t seen any evidence of this.
I don’t feel it’s my place to share any of that conversation publically, except to say that if he is to be believed then the wild speculation that’s going on here is unjustly harming the company’s name.
There’s little excuse for their past behavior, but the Costco thing appears to have been an isolated incident that should now be resolved.
Sounds to me like a classic Grey Market scenario. Manufacturer sells a product to someone. The deal is done in good faith but at some point the buyer needs to move the product. Product is bought in a lot at a price that allows the original buyer to not lose any/too much money and the new buyer to makes a bit. Nobody expects the deal to be repeated.
I suspect that somebody knew somebody and a buyer at Costco sensed a good deal and pulled the trigger. I used to deal with this sort of thing in the ski industry. Sure, there were enough instances that were nefarious and there were some scumbags who excelled at this business model but often it was somebody trying to get out from under a crushing debt midway through a ski season where there was no snow.
The manufacturers looked really bad and tried to quash deals that they heard were going down. In some cases I know of reputable manufacturers who went to the second buyer and bought all of their inventory at a terrific monetary loss because their reputation for producing quality gear was not well served by having a discounter offer their gear at sub-market prices. We are talking about really large companies that did buy-backs here. Not companies who are trying to stay above water and honor existing commitments.
IMO if the truth is that Trak sold a bunch of boats to a resort and in doing so didn’t preempt existing customers orders then I see no issue that they should be held in contempt of. If there were some folks’ orders that were preempted and they did that deal in order maintain some semblance of cash flow to stay in business then I’m still OK with their actions because if they go out of business everybody loses. There may be other scenarios.
I don’t have a horse in this race but after spending 47 years in the outdoor retail business I do have some thoughts. If Trak has acted out of greed then shame on them. If they made a business decision knowing that they would hurt some folks, again shame on them. If they sold more boats to someone that that someone needed and those boats were sold to Costco I hold them harmless. Maybe something else happened but until I learn what that something else is and have a chance to digest it I feel that this whole Costco-thing should be put behind us and not considered as evidence of some wrongdoing.
I was young and stupid in those days.