Most IIIs. Broken Nose and Tablesaw
on the Ocoee are IIIs.
AC/DC.
It’s relative to progress. All crossover
kayaks are better ww craft than any poly kayak you could buy in 1978.
which canoe
Listen to the first couple of posters. They know what they are talking about.
In simple terms there are two types of tripping canoes. Long light boats with a straight keel for lake travel, and heavier canoes with rocker and depth for tripping on rivers. You are asking for a boat that does everything well. That is a tall order.
I like rivers, and like boats with rocker even for paddling lakes. I also like big boats. I would not consider a canoe less than 16 1/2 feet. I like the 17 1/2 to 18 range or bigger.
I’m with Ppine 100%
I agree.
design picks water
Poster can have it his way but cannot demand maneuverability on river water. The long light hull would run straight down a 2+ but not maneuver thru a tight entrance from an eddy turn…
Depends on local rivers, right ? If local water fits that bill then he’s in with one hull.
Expedition Kevlar ?
I guess I agree
Maybe I am reading too much into this. When I see “tripping” I think of carrying gear for camping. For that, a bigger boat would be better. So I agree with you there.
For an “all round” boat (day trips on rivers) I’d prefer a 16-foot boat, and the OP has a couple of boats in his list that are close. Unless you are going to be play boating, I don’t think there is much need for rocker in a tandem boat. Once you get the nose into an eddy, all it takes is a little bit of a lean to swing the boat around – the current will do the rest. With paddlers in the bow and stern you have a lot of control over the turn. Underway, sideslips are the easiest way to line up in channels.
Of the boats the OP lists, I guess I would pick the Esquif Prospectuer because it is a little longer. The Pocket Canyon would be my last choice.
Don’t agree about the rocker.
John Winters has designed quite a bit of useful rocker into some long, fast tandems.
Our Bluewater is straight through the center, but lifts enough at the ends to make it a very good class 2+ and swamp twister.
mostly agree with that statement-
I’m an owner of a llxp and a perception mirage. The xp is far more functional in most ways. I paddle it more than the mirage but it is also slower on the water and harder to carry up the bank. If you want to ender big the mirage is the boat to have.
True, but there are a lot of
river runners without much rocker - Penobscot for example. My Mohawk Whitewater 16 doesn’t have much rocker.
That’s like how some of us c-1 paddlers
feel about the Gyramax or the Hahn. Old boats sometimes do certain things better than new boats.
One factor is how everyone bit into the “planing hull” and short boat thing. Now, lengths are creeping back up a bit, and only certain boats are designed to plane on green waves for hours.
Looks more like side surfing
It does look like fun. Esquif Canyon - there is a bit of rocker on that boat.
Esquif Mistral
Don’t know where you live, but an Esquif Mistral just showed up in the classified section in Florida. That might meet your needs.
Peter
Caution
The 16 foot Esquif Mistral is more or less a Prospector type hull with a few modern refinements. It has quite a bit of rocker, good carrying capacity, a good bit of depth and a shallow arch bottom like most Prospectors.
The hull is asymmetrical with more bow height than stern height and is a bit less beamy than some 16’ Prospectors. It also lacks the recurved stems that are common to most Prospectors.
The hull design is fine for a river tripping canoe. It wouldn’t be the fastest on flat water by a long shot but it would probably be tolerable.
But I would not consider this hull for whitewater use. The boat is made of Twin-tex which Esquif brought to the market 7 years ago or more thinking it would replace Royalex. Allegedly, Esquif invested quite a bit of money into Twin-Tex R&D and in the end brought only three models to the market, the two different size Mistrals, and a solo whitewater boat, the Zephyr. They have not produced any new models in this material for years.
Although I do know of a few individuals who have had luck with their Zephyrs, I know of many more who have had them crack. Unfortunately, Twin-tex is difficult or impossible to repair using conventional techniques. Crack repair has generally required taking the boat to an Esquif certified repair facility or having it shipped there, and I know of only one in the US, Blue Mountain Outfitters in Pennsylvania. I believe they charge around $200 to repair a crack 6" or less in length. With a used boat out of warranty you would be on your own.
I’m a thinkin’ my Taureau was
twin tex, I liked how light it was. I had some issue with the boat- mostly my inability to paddle it well and getting a good comfortable fit in it. I was fine with the material it was made out of. Everybody said they were hard to fix if you did crack 'em.
Reason for few twin tex models…
I was informed afew years back by an Esquif person that twin tex required the use of aluminum molds…very, very expensive. The models that were produced were the ones that were either their best sellers, or those that were anticioated to be. Given some of issues that have occured, I suspect that the mold pricing is becoming cost prohibitve, especially now that they are working on a Royalex replacement.
Esquif Taureau
The Taureau is molded from something Esquif calls T-form Elite, which is a proprietary polypropylene-based thermoplastic.
Twin-tex is a hybrid of fiberglass and polypropylene.
maybe,but
Jeremy Laucks of Blackfly canoe started molding his polyethylene canoes in fiberglass molds because of the expense. But he is now switching over to aluminum molds, and his is pretty much a cottage industry. If he has the financial resources for aluminum molds, I would think that Esquif certainly would.
I think that if Twin-tex had worked out as well as Esquif expected back in 2007 when Jacques Chasse predicted it would replace Royalex, we would have seen other models by now. Esquif has had to replace or repair a lot of Twin-tex hulls under warranty. I will be surprised if we ever see another Twin-tex model from Esquif.