Y’all don’t get it.
If you want a pfd for paddling pick one with big arm holes and pad thickness that isn’t going to interfer with the stroke across the chest. They are often called “paddling” pfds.
If you want a pfd that floats a dense heavy thing get one with high “bouancy” rating.
If you want one that floats your head one self rights you pick a type II or III.
If you want all three your search may be long.
Overstreet, if you are going to quote, use the whole post instead of taking one part out of context.
The PFD I am most interested in buying is not tall/long, not bulky, not restricting of body motion, and it IS designed for paddling. It just isn’t Type III.
Your posts to me consistently put me down, twist what my post says, or make assumptions that aren’t based on fact.
If you don’t like my question or me (though we have never met), then at least have the decency to not make someone’s question something that it isn’t.
That was one of many websites I found but is not that informative.
Much more useful is this one:
The USCG itself is supposedly going to “recognize” the ISO standards as (!gasp!) international one of these days.
All three PFDS (Vaikobi, Mocke, Nelo) I have checked out meet ISO standard 12402-5 but so far do not get the USCG’s official blessing. The Nelo was the loaner I did the surf ski remounts with. It was a piece of cake to do even though the Nelo is “one size fits all”.
Even the lowest-buoyancy rating of 11 lbs floats me just fine. I know this because my “youth PFD” that is US-made, USGC Type III blahblahblah floats me and it is rated at 10 lbs buoyancy. The 88-lb limit that the USCG gives as being the upper limit of “youth” is very, very conservative. The linked article shows that even only 11 lbs buoyancy is enough for an average adult (and probably an adult male at that).
I’ll wait and see if official USCG recognition of the ISO ratings on the Vaikobi happens. Meanwhile, I have the officially-acceptable “youth” PFD that, according to USCG regs, I do NOT have to wear or even have on board when paddling one of the racing-category craft, which a ski is. Same as for rowing shells.
I guess the part I found informative with the link I shared was that both type II and type III vests have at least 15.5 pounds of flotation. I would have thought type II would have had more flotation. For me a refresher on pfd types was good. In the ww environment type III and type v jackets (commercial rafting vests that support an unconscious victim) are just about all I see in use (in wv on rivers).
I think the best pfd is the one you are wearing. I believe that pfd use is somewhat “cultural”. Meaning that some user groups are more likely to use pfds than some other groups. Perhaps some valid reasons exist for this. For instance, if a pfd interferes with reentry while on the water, perhaps that could effect usage. If people perceive they can just stand up because they are in a shallow environment perhaps they don’t see any need to wear a pfd. I personally feel much safer with a pfd on in all environments and don’t find it a hassle to wear one. pikabike, the link you shared had some good info about testing your pfd to make sure it still floats you. Personally, I switch out every couple of seasons to a new pfd. I find the foam compresses a bit and what once floated me well diminishes with exposure to the elements.
Testing an old PFD is a good idea. I should check mine.
The PFDs that absolutely needed retesting were the old-fashioned kapok-filled ones. Some manufacturers still use them as an allegedly more eco-conscious stuffing than foam. Truly the least impact, though, would be an inflatable. Might not be as secure a float as a foam-stuffed one.
My 2 cents…
A commercial operation has to advise and supply whatever is legal.
Private, wear or carry whatever you want to or none and quietly except the circumstances.
What is all this debate about?
I’ve been doing that, using a Youth PFD. The potential problem is being grilled by a ranger who decides to look for nits to pick. While I doubt that an adult wearing a Youth PFD is illegal, the State Park rangers occasionally look for “things.” One such State Park ranger asked me, way back in the new millenium, whether my kayak was at least 16’ long. I was wearing my (adult) PFD and know what he was about to pick on, given that he seemed to be looking for things to ticket over: USCG specifically exempts hand-paddled vessels from having to carry a Type IV throwable, including those more than 16’ long. However, the CO boating regs, while derived mostly from USCG regs, do not contain the exemption clause. I don’t know why. When I looked up individual states’ boating regs, most of them contained the exemption or simply said that they follow USCG regs.
The mindset of the state regulators is almost totally immersed in powerboating. They do not get that a 17’ skinny kayak lacks the cavernous amount of empty space that powerboats do. We also do not carry drunken passengers who stand up to pee and fall overboard while not wearing a PFD and therefore need someone on board to toss them a Type IV.
FL rangers are far more familiar with the differences between powerboats and paddled boats.
There was also another incident at a CO state park, in which I was paddling my WWK in winter after the boat ramps had been closed. There was some ice along the edge but also some liquid areas to go through them. The state regs actually DID allow WWK to be used in winter. Unfortunately, I got a brand-new ranger who decided I should be kicked off the lake. I explained to him that the boat was allowed in winter and he at first denied it, whipping out his regs book and pointing something out. Then there was a pause (probably he saw the exemption) and instead of admitting his mistake, he changed his reason for kicking me off. The reason? “Ranger discretion”, since he no longer had a specific reason. He said he WOULD fine me if I got back in the water. Later, I talked to his boss, the chief ranger, whom I knew, and he chuckled a little. Pretty much said the ranger had been overzealous without actually saying it in those words.
Wow. Aside from events with safety boats involved, only once have I seen a DNR ranger patrolling the water. They’re not even present at most boat access sites in Michigan, probably because there are so many.
“Ranger discretion.” What a jerk.
Yeah, DNR on the water in Southern Michigan seems to be pretty rare as well. I have seen the county out on the local lake though. I did have a Coast Guard Auxiliary inspection last year. It was voluntary & I passed even though flares & radio were in the car. I was heading out for rescue practice on the local lake.
Had to laugh. My powerboat once passed with old flares (promised to replace)
Fire extinguisher not mounted (promised to mount)
No VHF Licence (back in the day) promised to remove the antenna.
Got my sticker, Had to be a slow day in the marina…
I had just bought the boat used and was working on it early one morning.
It can make your life easier to know what a given local oversight group may want.
The most interesting behavior I have seen is from the local Coast Guard auxiliaries, essentially retiree volunteers who have some rights to look you over. I have seen them here and there offshore in Maine and for a time period there was a fairly enthusiastic bunch patrolling the Mohawk River west of Lock 7. If they are out there at all they tend to take a look.
The ones on salty water seemed to be satisfied by the same things as the occasional regular Coast Guard. If they saw good PFDs, apt clothing and decks with stuff like spare paddles they waved and moved on. The bunch on the Mohawk would ask to see a light, preferably white, which is a sensible requirement for that stretch of water.
The state rangers on local smaller bodies of water are mostly older folks with a decent sense of humor. I asked the guy in charge of one local park once whether he had any concerns about my practicing rolling in a pond that was officially not swimming. Which my roll involved a lot of at that point. I had seen it used by others for that purpose so I figured it was OK. He confirmed that I was talking about the blue boat - he was right - and said that he only worried if it was still upside down when he did his last circuit for the day of the road that went around the pond.
Celia, you’re right that it’s good to know the general attitude of those charged with oversight, or nannying in some cases. The volunteers and seasonal rangers here (different part of CO) seem like reasonable people, and the closest state park, about 30 miles away, is open to winter paddling. It is probably frozen over by now.
The jerk at the metro Denver state park was a “permanent” ranger. He later got transferred to a park without any lake in it. I hope he doesn’t get transferred anywhere on the western slope.
For the most part I am happy that there are “authorities” to oversee how parks get used. Most but not all rangers/law enforcement officers are reasonable people. Mostly I paddle in places where paddling is not actively managed. I general, I tend to avoid places (or paddle off season) where things are heavily regulated… It’s a pretty short list: Ohiopyle State Park, Baxter State Park, and Allagash Wilderness Waterway all have some really fine paddling but are all pretty heavily regulated so they don’t make the “return to” list. Dam release rivers tend to be more of a circus in the whitewater realm.
IMO, most modern PFDs suffer for lack of crotch straps. This is important for rescuing an unconscious person and it vastly reduces the possibility of coming out of the PFD. A PFD should have the amount of floatation printed on it somewhere. Floatation can vary. A PFD should be chosen considering a worst case scenario. If going offshore a Type IV is recommended. If you’ve ever been in heavy seas you’ll know why. Type II or III will do for most rivers, although I’ve not seen a Type II that gave the FOM I desire.
When you have the sprayskirt correctly placed in the tunnel of the drysuit, it is impossible to get a PFD crotch strap between your legs.
I have rehearsed rescue of unconscious paddlers on several occasions. I have never seen a paddler come out of his PFD in this situation, even though we have to pull a lot in the PFD.
Although its probably said with the best of intentions, lol at the crotch strap. That is not a real idea, its the worst ‘wear your pfd’ campaign tag line ever. Just put any pdf of any type on and you’re 99% more likely to survive whatever mishap than without one. (% obviously made up, but probably not too far off)
With above. Crotch strap is not possible to use in a kayak with a skirt. Only works in canoes
A trend with ww pfds is that many manufacturers now design the pfd to wrap around the torso to prevent “ride up”. Astral in particular designs this way. I find ride up to be more of an issue with small children. In some instances I’ve added a makeshift crotch strap when ride up is an issue. I get a little ride up when I wear some of my vests due to the buddha/beer belly. The ideal situation is to loosen all the straps on the pfd then have someone help adjust the straps.
I don’t mind a bigger bulkier vest in the winter, it is warmer, and it will float me a bit higher if I swim but the trade off is that it is ectually harder to swim to shore with the added flotation.
Sorry, I always forget the kayakers. they came along a good while after I started paddling.