Prepreg still slows things down
enough to eliminate the "rush" in vacum bagging .... unless baby jabs you in the eye and take you out for a week...... will work w/out the autoclave too.
Infusion 'cleaner" but still a little heavy compared to true, real V-bagging.
Valley’s Method?
What does Valley use for a typical fiberglass kayak like the Aquanaut?
Prepreg??
How can prepreg be done without an autoclave? My kids got involved in rowing so I’ve had a chance to talk to some of the distributors of the various racing shells with all of the upper end shells now being built with prepreg carbon/glass cloth that is prepregnated with the resin that must be stored refrigerated till ready to be used in the build then layed in the mold and baked in an oven to produce the boat. For what they are useing for prepreg cloth it must be baked under preassure according to them so curious how else it can be done?
True
They claim that if you are skilled craftsman at the glassing buisiness you can produce a high quality boat that is almost as light as those built with some of the newer molding techniques and have it come out stronger. Some might not like their hulls, but I would be hard pressed to accept the argument that they aren’t well built. They are.
Vacum bagging plus infusion
Lincoln in Maine has been working with a mixture of both of these processes. Their weights are accurate for their finished product. I am not an accomplished paddler and don’t get the best fit in their hulls so I don’t have an opinion on their performance or durability, but I do own their 5.3 vacum bagged glass canoe that I have had for over 17 years and as frail as it appears, I have used it extensively for how it was intended to be used (up to Class II, but not Class III white water up) and it has held up just fine. Nice to have a 17+’ canoe that only weighs 50lbs as my own weight and age gains.
http://www.canoesandkayaks.com/craftsmanship.htm
Cores DO have structural importance
in conjunction with the skins. That’s what I was trying to convey. Hold a piece of core mat in your hand and it’s obvious it doens’t have any strength. It’s a part of a whole once impregnated with resin. Make a door out of two skins of luan seperated by a non-compressible spacer, etc. I had the sense the question was trying to seperate out a constituent from it’s application. In the way that one might think “kevlar is bulletproof”.
The fellow describing the high tech version of blowed chopped strand with carbon said it’s what he did making rocket nose cones.
they are
clean is the word that comes to mind.
with respect
thank you very much, please point out where I am amiss.
Ahh, I see, my choppy post alluding to a spray chopped carbon/epoxy construction technique being similar to infusion,,,that is totally inadvertant and unintentional comparision. That's not what I meant. You may continue.
Now if there was something about Neckys infusion "ACL!" method you could contribute on I'm all ears. My thoughts there after seeing my composite Ch18 with minimal reinforcement in the bow where it hit the dock and a 2sq in area of gel coat popped clean off allowing me to see how thin the ends were (with some cracking in the laminate) and a couple production Ch17 where the core reinforcement ended forward of the seat area resulted in a stressor where the stiff chine met the flexible hull,,well I'm all ears. My thoughts there was that for all it's fanciness the hull wasn't that light and that Necky was still deciding on what to put where.
It depends on the age and layup
All the older boats (before Peter Orton took over) were hand layups, most of which were done with a combination of woven cloth and chopped strand mat. Current boats are all cloth, with the exception of deck fitting and compass recesses, which are made of mat because it conforms to tight curves better. Their high-end layups are now vacuum bagged or infused, I’m not sure which.
Swift
Swift now claims to be using a system they call “SwiftFusion”. By Swift’s description this sounds like vacuum infusion (as opposed to vacuum bagging) as has been discussed at this thread.
http://www.swiftcanoe.com/swift_fusion.html
Swift Fusion
Swift is vacuum infusing with foam cores and has a stunning new foam-Kev Carbon gunwale system also available from Pb.
Matawa, ~ 16 ft tandem with foam rails is 30# even with wood seats, including bow slider, and wood thwarts. Should come in 26# with copmposite seats and thwarts.
cew
Swift Fusion
Swift is vacuum infusing with foam cores and has a stunning new foam-Kev Carbon gunwale system also available from Pb.
Matawa, ~ 16 ft tandem with foam rails is 30# even with wood seats, including bow slider, and wood thwarts. Should come in 26# with copmposite seats and thwarts.
cew
infusion cleaner but heavier?
Infusion and wet bagging have the same material in the mold and the same ammount resin after the vacuum does its job of flattening the layers and sucking out excess resin. resultant weights should be identical unless some of the wet bag resin gels before the bag goes down.
Prepreg fabric can be ordered to catalyze by various light spectra and at various temps. The vacuum keeps the resin impregnated layers together so they cross link.
cew
RE: Infused gunwales
Traditional wood/aluminum/vinyl rails are easily repaired/replaced when they become worn or broken. Are the infused foam-kev-carbon rails molded in place as part of the hull? Can they be repaired/replaced easily by the average Joe at home? How about field repairs? - Randall
repair of infused gunwales
Field repair would be same as any other rail system - cut and shape a tree branch, install under broken rail with many long screws.
Home repair would include laying a layer of the braided tube on the existing rail and resinating w/ VE resin - just like repairing a laminated hull except longer.
Small price to pay for 10lb weight savings on a 16’tandem, 5# on a 12 ft solo.
cew