Valley Skerray
Harald, you might like to explore a fiberglass Valley Skerray. It is no longer in production but there are a good number to be found.
The Skerray was offered as a larger version of the Pintail. It was made with or without skeg,altho I agree with the other posters that this design, like the Pintail, needs some skeg to make going from A to B more pleasureable.
FWIW, I paddled a very nice 1994 Pintail w. the ocean cockpit and flat stern deck. It fit me pretty well, including the masik, and I am 5’3" and 115 lbs. It was a fine frisky boat to paddle and indeed a beauty. I prefer the Anas Acuta, but by only a little bit 
Pintail size
The 1999 I used to paddle felt smaller then the
2006 or 2007 I was sitting in at dealer. Then we
put an Avocet & Pintail beside each other &
Pintail looked quite abit bigger, then sitting
in Avocet & Pintail I was amazed at how much bigger Pintail felt in cockpit area but less
foot room. I could of swore my 99 felt smaller
then new model in shop. I’am down about 15lbs
from then so maybe that played a roll in how
boat fit.
Skeg is not a crutch
Although I very seldom use my skeg due to my paddling style and conditions, in my opinion you shouldn’t think using a skeg is some sort of failure.
The hydrodynamics of a kayak change with your speed and the conditions. It is impossible to design a kayak to be neutral all the time unless you put in something adjustable. Some hulls will be pretty neutral or forgiving over a wider range of conditions and the designer can tweak where that range is but at the expense of something else. So you can fight the design, use a skeg, or maybe tow another boat along to swap with when your purposes change.
If you want to learn to paddle better without a skeg (a good thing to do IMO) then just don’t use it. I think this is especially true if it is your day-boat where you don’t need to squeeze out the most storage space. Besides, if you paddle a lot of whitewater you probably have way better strokes than most sea kayakers.
Good luck.
Skeg
– Last Updated: Oct-23-07 3:01 AM EST –
I paddle without using the skeg most of the time in my Nordkapp, and I don`t think using it is a failure of my technique - I am just so very tempted of the idea of a very basic kayak without any "tools" that might do the paddling easier:-)
I am confident in my technique - I started white water kayaking in 1976, and have raced both C1 and K1 slalom, C1 and K1 wwr, K1 racing olympic style (all this in the 1980s), K1 and C2 maraton, Open C1 ww canoes and lots of sea kayaking. These days I do mostly sea kayaking and some open canoeing (C1 and C2), but I still paddle my Struer Cleaver X racing K1 as an anti-geriatric exercise:-)
Anyway - thank you all for the responses to my posting - I`ll come back to you after I have tried a Pintail:-)
Harald
Good luck with your choice Harald
I wouldn’t think about the Pintail as skeg or no skeg, as for this kayak the skeg is an integral part of the design. If you want a skegless kayak that is even better than the Pintail in rough water and surfing, take a look a Bjorn Thommassen’s Black Pearl. It can be custom built to your size, will weigh 20 pounds less that a carbon Pintail, and is one of the most beautiful kayaks made. I own both, and rarely paddle the Pintail anymore. I suppose you could paddle the BP with a Euro paddle, but it is traditional East Greenland design, and would give you an entry into Greenland paddling if you’re interested.
Black Pearl
Thanks, the Black Pearl was really a beauty:-) But I am not into building boats my self - only using them.
I currently use only europaddles (and wings in racing boats) but are going to try out greenland style kayaking. I have paddled a short daytrip with Happy Yakker of this forum, and she might persuade me into trying a gp next time we meet here in Norway:-)
Thanks again - I`ll come back to this thread when I have paddled a Pintail.
Harald
It’s all about fun
The Pintail is one of the best rough water boats on the market. If you like to play in surf, rocks, tide races, etc., you can’t beat it. However, as a general-purpose boat, it’s somewhat lacking, as it has little directional stability (it wanders like a hound-dog puppy unless you drop the skeg a bit) and it’s slow on flat water. I will probably always own a Pintail, but not as my primary boat. The Anas Acuta is a better all-rounder and it’s the boat I paddle the most.
Perhaps there’s been another change…
…but I haven’t heard of any. It would be a shame to make the Pintail any larger than it is. In fact, I much prefer the older version, which can now be special ordered from Valley.
If one needs a slightly larger volume boat with similar overall handling, the Skerray is the way to go.
That comparison is a bit lacking
Frankly, as much as I like my Pintail, the lack of directional stability is not just something to get used to, it’s a pain in the ass when you’re just trying to get from point A to point B in normal conditions. The running joke among the local Pintail contingent is that to figure out how far we paddle, we have to take the trip mileage and double it, since we’re never going in a straight line. Having a skeg makes the boat much more versatile and pleasant to paddle under most conditions. On flat water without the skeg, it’s like paddling a balloon-tired, single-speed with a front flat; it’s slow and it won’t go where you point it.
There are other boats on the market that don’t need skegs to perform properly, such as the Betsie Bay designs (Valkyrie, Aral, Recluse). Those would be more like single speed/fixed gear riding. They’re minimalist boats that require paddler skill to control them, but they don’t have the vices that the Pintail design does. They track well enough to go where you point them and they’re considerably faster.
For that matter, the Pintail’s predecessor, the Anas Acuta is a much better all-around boat. While I tend to drop the skeg on my AA a bit (1/4 or less), it paddles OK without it. I would still hesitate to order one without the skeg, however.
I agree about the Skerray
We used them on a trip we took to Shetland and they performed wonderfully. They’re similar to the Pintail, but higher volume and no handling vices.
Skegless Pintail
We paddle with a coach/guide in Maine who has an original design Pintail. Paddling alongside him making good time in flat seas (I in my Aquanaut), I said to him that the Pintail is a boat I’ve heard ‘no one can paddle straight’, he looked puzzeled and replied “I understand some of these have skegs?”
He is a much better paddler than I. At his level of technique a skegless Pintail works for an array of uses.
Thanks
This is really cool, thank you all for your response to my questions. I guess the only way I can find this out is to paddle the Pintail my self, but it really helps to hear about your experienxes:-)
One of the reasons I would like my next sea kayak to be a Valley is that a friend of mine distributes Valley here in Norway - and besides beeing a big Vally fan myself - I would also like for him to get some publicity with such a beautiful boat out on the water.
We are a group of sea kayakers who has talked about going to the Anglesey Symposium next spring - I might get a chance to try the Pintail there, if not I can make the drive to the Valley factory in Nottingham:-)
Thanks again, contact me if some of you guys are going over here to Norway some time.
Harald
excelent
kayak to try out…lots of people that come from a WW background bond with Pintails. I had one up until a few months ago. I never used the skeg…didn’t matter what the conditions. WW trains you how to paddle a spinny boat straight.
I now own a couple of Anas Acuta’s, one with a skeg and one without…and my wife has an Anas Acuta with a skeg. I still never use the skeg on my skeged boats. I think my wife puts hers down every now and then.
My other boats are a sectional Nordkapp HM Jubilee and a Romany.
Oh and a couple of rodeo and creekers…
The factor that you will probably notice the most about the Pintail is the proud sections either side of the cockpit that are by your knees…I always tended to hit my thumbs on that part of the boat.
otherwise they are a fine boat.
If you decide to buy a Pintail…get the skeg, even tho you may not use it…a Non-Skegged Pintail would be a dificult boat to sell and if sold, will sell for much less than one with a skeg.
(I don’t hit my thumbs on my Nordkapp or my Romany or on my Anas Acuta’s…but I did on the Pintail.)
Best Wishes
Roy
Thanks Roy
Just the words I wanted to hear:-)
How tall/heavy are you?
Yeah wilso.
My pal who was an Olympic slalom coach loves the Pintail! He has no problems making it do whatever he wishes… but most of us are not that level of paddler!
hatch layout changed?
– Last Updated: Oct-23-07 4:24 PM EST –
I was at symposium and saw 3 pintails side by side, if I recall, hatch/compass placement was different on all of them.
I'm 5'-8" and 170#. I just returned from a weeklong trip to the apostle islands, for which I used my pintail (other boat is a greenlander). I had a full load and still a good amount of freeboard, but I doubt you could do the same at your weight.
I will say that although volume could have become an issue, performance was not. I find in anything but calm conditions I can keep up with others on an extended trip. Conditions were rough the majority of the time and I was so happy with my choice.
The comparison to the romany just illustrates how much personal choice plays into these decisions because I'm glad I fgot a pintail and not a romany. I think the pintail is more playful and more attractive.
I’m
about 205 to 210 pounds and about 5 foot 10 1/2 inches tall. I have cut the seats out of all my kayaks and my wifes Kayaks too. I use the Valley foam seat . It doesn’t rub my leg wrong with the front edge of the seat hanger as the glass seat does. when camping with my (and my wife’s) Nordkapps, we sometimes slide out the seat to sit on in camp.
With the Anas Acuta’s we usually leave the seats out so that we sit on the floor like a Skin boat.
I add a seat for working with people with short backs to help them with layback rolls…otherwise we just padd down from the top like a foam Masik.
My Romany, I can paddle either with a seat or without depending on how loose I want to fit. It’s a little snug under the thigh braces with the seat in , but works. It, and the Pintail and the Anas Acuta’s were/are all a little too snug for me with the factory seats in them. My thights are 25 inches around (63.5 cm) I prefer a kayak to have about 1 to 1 1/2 inch freeboard to the seam. And in all these boats except my Nordkapp , that is about how they ride with me and minumal or no gear in them. I use my Nordkapp for distance travel or for camping. after loading it rides about the same way in the water as the other kayaks do when empty or mostly so.
Hope some of this helps
Best Wishes
Roy
It helped a lot:-)
Thanks Roy, this helped a lot. I guess that 220 lbs would not be totally out of the question then - I would only have some food and water in addition to my self in this boat - not any touring gear. But maybe a winter with lots of XC skiing and rowing on my C2 will help me reach a weight around yours - It would certainly be great:-)
If I am going to order me a Pintail, I`ll do it with the skeg - point taken:-)
Thanks
Harald
not a “tiny person boat”
– Last Updated: Oct-24-07 9:17 AM EST –
That's an exaggeration. It may not fit Harald, but I've had people up to 6' and 180# in mine w/no worries. Also have had a "tiny person" in it and comment was that it felt like sitting in an oversized bathtub.