What your average annual snowfall?
I’ve only had three vehicles, and all of them were boat-haulers. The first one is practically irrelevant because nothing similar to it exists today. It was a '71 IHC Travelall which I got after it wasn’t needed as our family car anymore. It had way more engine than it needed, and with a three-speed, non-locking automatic, it only got 15 mpg, which in those days wasn’t considered terrible. I didn’t actually sell it until 1995 so it overlapped on boat-hauling duties with my next vehicle, which was an '80 Subaru wagon with genuine four-wheel drive (front-wheel drive for all normal driving, four-wheel drive for when things got dicey or often just for accelerating from a stop on slippery roads. It shifted so easily that in that last-named situation I’d just bump it back into two-wheel drive as soon as I hit third gear). I drove the Subaru for 15 years. The next vehicle was the one I use now, a '95 Chevy S-10 Blazer. It’s 22 years old now but barring something unforeseen, I have no plans to get rid of it unless or until the rust gets too severe. All three vehicles were/have been nearly trouble-free.
I got a kick out of Pete’s comment that his Ford Explorer had a transmission which was made for a much smaller car so it kept breaking down. My dad once had a '69 Ford Econoline van (it was a boat-hauler too), and he became really good at doing complete rebuilds of the automatic transmission. Ford used a reliable automatic transmission in their pickups in those days, and if they’d have had any sense they’d have done the same with their vans, but how many American auto makers had sense in those days? This Ford van had the same transmission as they used in the Mustang, a car which was extremely tiny by comparison. We rebuilt that transmission 4 times over 200,000 miles. My guess is that the folks at Ford knew full well that it would be a recipe for disaster right from the start, but they probably had a slew of tiny transmissions in stock and not enough small cars to put them in.
@Rookie said:
@Sparky961What your average annual snowfall?
I couldn’t find numbers for exactly where I live. Compared to the surrounding area I’m in a little microclimate at a higher elevation with lower temperatures, higher wind, and more snowfall. The surrounding areas average ~120cm (~47") annual snowfall.
@pblanc said:
My twenty one year old 4WD Toyota Tacoma truck with a Leer cap on the back.If you don’t need the ground clearance and 4WD, minivans actually make great paddle tripping vehicles. With doors that open on both sides you can stand on the rocker panels and easily access boats on the roof. If you take out most of the seats, there is plenty of room to sleep inside and stow gear.
I can and sometimes still do sleep in the bed of my truck under the cap but it is not quite as pleasant.
I’ve lusted after a Toyota Tacoma for as long as I can remember. The Canyon was like half the price and probably just as capable though. Maybe it works out as a better value in the end, but that initial cost isn’t trivial.
What you mention regarding using the van for sleeping and gear hauling is exactly why it’s a consideration. What you also mention about ground clearance and 4WD is why it’s out of the running. 
I used to own a Chev 2500 4x4 V8 5.7L GAS with an 8 foot box that was almost more luxurious to sleep in than my own bed. The fuel cost was causing nightmares though! I can just barely fit corner to corner in the 5 foot bed of the Canyon Crew. The reclined passenger seat delivers a very good night’s sleep though.
@Sparky961
Our average snowfall is 150" (318cm). One winter we had 210". My road isn’t plowed in the morning, but I’ve found that with four snow tires and front wheel drive I can make the 1.5 mile drive to the highway with no issues. Snow here is always dry in the winter; spring wet snow is different challenge. Drove a Toyota Matrix for 14 years before replacing it with a Honda Fit (lots of cargo space). However, I avoid “no maintenance” roads. Those are for xx skis or snow shoes.
I have a 2015 Forester - Thule bars on the factory rails. It’s fine. I do like the AWD and higher ground clearance. It doesn’t get the best milage - especially with a boat or two. You see a lot of Foresters at put-ins around here. I drove a van for years, and it was great, but it automatically made me the shuttle driver.
The State Car of Maine is the Forester. You don’t see many minivans. Thats cause you have to back up slick hills…
Mileage is more complicated. You would think the Forester is great at mileage. Put two canoes on top with that little engine and the mileage tanks… Drops from 29 to 22 at highway speeds. Our larger more comfortable Tundra ( back in the reasonable size days of 2000) with a v 8 got 22 miles and no drop in mileage at highway speeds with boats on top. This was important to us as there was at least 10000 miles of canoe laden interstate driving a year.
I do practically no city driving… Almost all of it is either low speed on dirt roads or 55-70 mph. Not many stoplights. A big vehicle would do more poorly of course in stop and go… f=ma
@kayamedic said:
The State Car of Maine is the Forester. You don’t see many minivans. Thats cause you have to back up slick hills…
I guess the more severe the winter conditions, the more people are forced to learn how their cars work in snow. Or maybe it’s the way word gets around in a place like yours.
Out here, even in the more-wintery north, I don’t think it’s common at all for people to know that their front-wheel drive cars (mini-vans or any other kind) will go up a snowy or icy hill far more effectively when going backward than when going forward.
@eckilson said:
I have a 2015 Forester - Thule bars on the factory rails. It’s fine. I do like the AWD and higher ground clearance. It doesn’t get the best milage - especially with a boat or two. You see a lot of Foresters at put-ins around here. I drove a van for years, and it was great, but it automatically made me the shuttle driver.
Small cars often loose gas mileage efficiency with the added drag of boats or racks. Generally I don’t keep track of it …
Now big trucks with big engines that don’t get great gas mileage anyway often don’t show much difference with boats on top.
There are a lot of Foresters in our canoe/kayak clubs around north Florida too.
I use a Toyota Tacoma with the 4 banger and a stick transmission. The 2.7 engine has more than enough power to pull my trailer and gets 31 mpg when on highway trips (without the trailer). This truck is 11 years old and I haven’t even had to replace the battery. I just recently replaced the tires with almost 90,000 miles on the originals. The engine has the variable valve timing and pulls like a small V-8. I’ve never had it above 3200 rpm. If I had to do it again, Toyota is the only rig I would be interested in.
@kayamedic said:
The State Car of Maine is the Forester. You don’t see many minivans. Thats cause you have to back up slick hills…
Mileage is more complicated. You would think the Forester is great at mileage. Put two canoes on top with that little engine and the mileage tanks… Drops from 29 to 22 at highway speeds. Our larger more comfortable Tundra ( back in the reasonable size days of 2000) with a v 8 got 22 miles and no drop in mileage at highway speeds with boats on top. This was important to us as there was at least 10000 miles of canoe laden interstate driving a year.
Had this happen with a 2012 Subaru Outback, which had exaggerated mpg to begin with, would drop to the high teens on the highway with two boats up top. Replaced it with an awd Ford Flex, needed more of a family truckster type vehicle anyways, and the big Flex only looses 1 or 2 mpg on the highway. The Flex has been great with the solid roof rack and a ton of room inside.
As of late August…2017 Toyota 4Runner TRD OffRoad. Picked up some matching Nitto Trail Grapplers for Spring-Fall.
Ford Excursion fun getting 100 lb. 22’ Libra XT up their. Not really bad just need to remember parkway bridges which are low low low on LOng Island.
Best is very subjective. When I paddled more, the 3 paddle vehicles I envied the most were a 4 banger Tacoma with a shell, a minivan with gutters, and a diesel excursion (they pulled out the seating and installed bunk beds). Honorable mention went to a mechanic who drove a 74 Ford truck towing a like year Bronco. He could self portage, and always had spare parts to make it home (and used them every major trip it seemed)
Personally, I had 2 full sized trucks with caps, now have one with a a pair of headache racks and a 3rd roof rack for long canoes (all removable, with the roof rack only on when needed). My wife’s minivan is not roof rack friendly. My stepson is going to be driving a Sport Trac that can be towed - abet if we are both awake we really don’t need a self propelled trailer.
The vehicle that most often gets me there is a pickup with a topper, with a trailer for the sea kayak. I slide the WW kayak in the bed diagonally.
The other vehicle doing boat duty is a fullsize SUV, heading towards its 21st birthday soon!
The Subaru has been used to carry a WW kayak (once or twice) but is not normally a boat hauler.
Currently I use a Honda Odyssey minivan to transport two canoes (17’, 18’). I’m looking to get a new vehicle and have been looking at some smaller SUVS (like Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Outback) and midsize SUVS (Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot). Has anyone had experience carrying two canoes on the smaller SUVS? I would guess carrying one canoe would work out OK? On a recent trip with 2 canoes, I encountered heavy gusts on the interstate which had the canoes moving around a “bit” - from what I could see out of the windshield. I’m kind of wondering how the smaller SUVs would work in windy conditions with 2 canoes. I would think the midsize SUVS could handle 2 canoes OK.
I do notice there does seem to be an issue on getting a good rack to carry 2 canoes on some of smaller SUVS.
Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated!
I am new to carrying canoes. Even with the duel headache rack, I was having canoe issues, which led to a third bar for longer canoes. Here are a couple thoughts. 2 front tie downs is steadier than 1. You might be above to lengthen your distance between bars with a trailer hitch mounted extension. A friend used to carry a hang glider, he had a front bumper mounted extension.
Will mention a story for fun. Had a friend get a new (used) land cruiser. He had a shop pull the headliner and install hardpoints (with through roof bolts) to attach his rack to. While he was a ww canoeist, he went on kayak oriented trips. Well us kayakers load the hell out of roof racks, so think we put about 6 on his roof (with a stacker probably) and he started to cinch it down, but it just would not feel right, so he cinched a bit more. Then he realized what he just did to his new car. The kayaks on edge were wedging the bars apart as he tightened. His racks were spreading, and now were at about 30 degree angles bending the roof with them.
So I was going to say you could always install hard-points, but if you do, make sure you either reinforce the roof properly and/or use something to prevent spreading.
Great stuff by everyone…
Experiencing movement is usually a lack of tie-down quality…not the vehicle, however the smaller vehicles one does often have to improvise…to extend the length of tie-down stability, as mentioned by others. The ability to get solid tie-downs helps a lot. Back in the 60s my granddad’s VW Beetle had a gutter-mount rack which was rock solid…held his wood & canvas 18’+ tandem and would often hold a 2nd(weekend social fishing trip with friend) but highway + wind limited our highway speed, but was ok up here on north-central Maine highways. When you have two canoes up top…you simply start a little earlier and take it a little slower. With today’s availability of longer crossbars the width issue, IME is gone. The main issue is ruggedness of the roof bars/footings and the tie-downs. That’s what makes or breaks it…imho.