Wearing a PFD at all times or maybe not?

[eckilson]

I get the personal freedom stuff, but for me paddling is also about being part of a group, and adhering to community norms.

If you are in a club or paddle with an organization like the scouts, PFD use is part of the deal. Some people prefer to stay away from these groups because of the structure, and that is their choice.

There are definitely some disciplines where PFD use is not an option. Show up for a whitewater trip in this area (I suspect any area) without proper gear, including a PFD, and the group will let you know that that’s not OK. I have done less sea kayaking, but I expect it is pretty much the same with that group. I go on canoe poling trips where we spend the entire day in water that isn’t above our knees, but everyone has a PFD on. Why? Because that is the expectation, and the community norm.

Why is it a community norm? Because in a group, everyone is responsible for everyone else, and everyone is expected to do everything that they can to keep themselves safe, like wearing a PFD. If you don’t join groups then it is not an issue.

I know that there are disciplines where the culture on PFD use is not as strong – racing is one of them. SUP’ing is another. I don’t do that type of stuff, but I assume that they deal with safety in different ways.

So I guess my bottom line is “when in Rome do as the Romans do”. When you are in a group where PFD use is the norm, put on the PFD. If not, you are on your own. Personally, I’ll always wear my PFD regardless.

[darkstar]

Yea if I’m in an organized group, I’d def follow group expectations. Def a connection theme between club and organization paddlers and “always” pfders mindset. That’s why I don’t do group paddles, you’re only as strong as your weakest link etc…. im really not a community guy until we get to the finish line usually. I’ll stop and help someone in need, ie we pulled a surfski guy and his Beautiful but destroyed Epic out from a tree strainer on the Guadalupe last week, I’m sure he was grateful we were there when we were as his head was submerged and as soon as we had him free I was swept off by the current as well and needed climb over the tree to get back to my boat. Was a solid rescue in a precarious spot

Small groups of like minded and abilities is enough for me.

I leave the team building and group stuff to others. I support their causes tho

[ivyabby]

Taxpayers are also paying for the Paramedics and EMTs who must scrape the bikers (who if helmetless are usually unconscious or dead) off the street, and the Police who must control traffic around the accident.
As a retired Paramedic, I have also been on many boating accidents where people not wearing PFDs are often dead.

[eckilson]

I love group trips. Knowing that there is support if you need it, but doing your best to make sure that you don’t. Stepping up on occasion to help someone else - like the rescue that you did - nice! The sense of accomplishment at the end of the trip when everyone made it through - even the weakest link.

To be honest, on a lot of the whitewater trips I do I am the weakest link - open boater without a roll paddling with a bunch kayakers that are probably a grade level above me in skill. I’m glad they will take me along, but I do my best not to make it a chore for them.

I get the not being a “community guy” - especially as you move up in skill. I have other friends that feel the same. There have been leaders and groups that I haven’t clicked with - solution is not to paddle with them again. For a lot of the stuff that I do group paddling is the only option.

It is nice just to get out with a few friends every once and a while.

[darkstar]

How many of them were determined to have potentially survived or been recovered faster if they had their pfd on? Prob a few but it’s mostly speculation. It’s easy to point to the pfd but that’s my issue with accident investigation, its easy to see pfd status and that immediately becomes the primary factor, whether it was or not. I’ve seen plenty who died with PFDs on also…They also prob had a boat too at one point, another common theme in boating deaths. It’s fun to speculate but the pfd doesn’t necessarily tell the tale

[Jyak]

I go through this discussion about the need for a spray skirt. When the bow starts flying and plunging to send water washing over the front deck, I just slow down. When I open the hatches after a trip to check for water, the compartments must be 120 degrees. Im not paddling in a cocoon with that heat. I also stay off the water when the water drops below 60°, but I have been out in 58° with air temps over 70°.

Nobody is going to change my mind or convince me otherwise. Saying it again, saying it louder, or saying it more eliquently won’t change my mind. However, I’m not offended by anyone’s persistent effort because it might trigger a thought in a another person’s mind that they had not considered.

I know I shouldn’t eat ice cream, so I usually don’t, but when I do, I do, and the warning label that says smoking ice cream can be hazardous to your life, I ignore it and just eat it instead.

I think many of us can recall a time when parents, teachers, society, and significant others demanded compliance. Although it migh have been for our benefit, that demand can be stifling and feel like a straight jacket choking our very breath. Even though taking an umbrella might be prudent, the sense of freedom is more rewarding.

I kayak for the freedom. I won’t bundle up in a snow suit or zip up my PFD (the belt at the waist is snapped securely, always). I won’t use a spray skirt or learn to roll, but I do know how to remount - I didn’t buy a kayak to roll; I bought it to stay out of the water, because I don’t think the Bay water where I paddle is clean, even though people trust it to swim in it. If I think the conditions will knock me over, I stay home and eat ice cream.

Keep up with the messsge because it might help someone, but it is what it is for most paddlers. For me, I accept the risks, so just be careful that your message doesn’t start to sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher.

[yknpdlr]

For many years, the Adirondack 90 mile canoe race did not require mandatory wearing of PFDs, although it was recommended. With up to 275 boats racing (starting in different “waves” by class), it was incumbent upon anyone encountering a boat in trouble or capsized, to render any needed assistance to the paddlers. During bad weather days, the NYSDEC along with the race director would determine that wearing of PFDs would be mandatory on that race day. I can recall when on a particularly often windy afternoon portion of a certain large wide lake, that often some of the fast very unstable “pro” canoes often capsized, but it was where we all closely rounded a point of land and the paddlers normally easily self rescued. Due to that and other factors, the race route was significantly altered to proceed up a slow river and portage to another lake to finish on that first day, bypassing the usual rough windy segment. Numerous safety motor boats were stationed along each waterway and especially on the larger lakes where they could monitor and assist any boat in trouble as the race waves of boats progressed.

Then, the 90 miler was recently sold to the Northern Forest Canoe Trail who manages it from now on. Their insurance requires 100% PFD compliance at all times. And so it is.

Other regional races were hit and miss if PFDs were required as policy from the outset, depending on sponsorship. The big Yukon River race rules of course require PFD wearing at all times, as the current is swift and the water is freezing cold from melting glaciers and mountain slopes, plus paddlers may suffer extreme fatigue with very long hours of paddling without sleep or a decent rest.

[ppine]

I always stress to people that kayaking and canoeing are group sports. Especially on overnight trips. Keep track of your friends, be available to help them. We wear PFDs for our friends as much as for ourselves. It makes rescues much easier.

[padiwaggintoo]

Whew. Having had a beautiful few hours of paddling on Tellico Lake this morning, I was scanning for any good gear options here, and noted this thread’s legs. Once I took my pfd off : , I was asking myself–I wonder why the OP asked the question.

Obviously is a polarizing topic, and clearly most people choose to wear one, but some don’t. And no one will be convinced by a board comment. Especially the long ones
Be safe and enjoy the one and only life you get, whether you choose to wear a PFD or not. Risk is higher without one, but it is after all your risk to take if you are paddling alone or not part of some group’s rules.

[Jyak]

My epiphany came when Davebart asked whether people wear a PFD when swimming. I went out on a kayak paddle and saw many people sunning on paddle boards, and some swimming - it looked enjoyable, logical and very natural. While I choose to wear a PFD for the sense of comfort, the warm fuzzy feeling it gave me was compromised when a well-meaning member advised that it might not be sufficient to keep me afloat or orient my body to keep my head out of water . . .

This is how ludicrous the argument can be. Imagine trying to snorkel with a PFD. Would you argue with a person in a kayak who has a PFD strapped to the deck if he or she was paddling to a snorkel alone. Is that dicotomy so hard to comprehend. Stick to your values, but leave it to each individual to make that decision.

Keep probing the topic and some do gooder will have the water police stopping everyone to see whether your PFD straps are snug enough, is your PFD the proper size, are the seams intact, do you have your whistle, “Do you realize you are kayaking in open water?” “You were clocked by radar paddling 6.75 mph in a 6 mph no wake zone!” “You have to return to port because there is a Small Craft Advisory in effect starting next hour.” Hey, teacher, leave them kids alone! It’s just another brick in the wall!

[Bobonli]

[PaddleDog52]

Slowing down doesn’t guaranty water will not enter a cockpit. Unless you’re Flat water Freddy.

[PaddleDog52]

You can snorkel with a PFD

You also need a signaling device like a whistle in most states I guess.

[PaddleDog52]

Most people don’t go as far swimming or put themselves in danger swimming as readily . Kayak gives many a false sense of security so the end up in trouble.

[Jyak]

I disagree. It does for me.

[PaddleDog52]

You’re not in rough water or taking waves on the beam. Sides of my kayak at the cockpit can be easily be breached by small waves. Side is what 4-5" high in a sea kayak?

[Jyak]

I’m going fast enough that the bow of a 175 Tsunami rises on a wave and plunges deep enough into the next trough for a sheet of water to wash over the front deck and into the cockpit. I can prevent it if I drop speed by one mph. That keeps the bow from flying, for lack of a better word. You may have a narrower boat than 24 inches and a different bow shape and hull form that lets you cut through a wave rather than climb them. Different boats for different folks.

I don’t consider the conditions rough compared to what some members face.

[darkstar]

I do …: but like I indicated, I do use an alert buoy

[Jyak]

Different kayaks. I selected the 145 Tsunami because it performs satisfactorily for my area and my conditions. I bought the 175 Tsunami because it handles rougher water better.

Here’s the weather forcast for today.

I’ll go out today if there are no thunder storms and can show you the graph. I expect an avg speed of 4.5 mph to 4.6 mph. Max speeds of 6.9 mph on the run to Hammerman (2nd leg). Waves will be accentuated by the opposite tide/wind direction. Moving time from start to finish will be about 1:52 hrs:min. Dustance 8.5 miles. See if I can come close.

[Jyak]

Signal device is mandatory. Snorkeling can be woth PFD, but snorkel diving is a bit harder with a PFD.