Yes I knew that, and needed the reminder. Duh!
As soon as I saw resvenics post I knew I had used the term wrong. Can’t get away with anything here. 
That’s also why skegs and rudders come into play when things are windy. They change the center of effort in relation to the center of resistance.
Right on all counts. Heavy and light isn’t so important, but weight placement does change the center of resistance in relation to the center of effort. That relationship determines how the boat responds in the wind.
The hull profile in the water changes with the deployment of a skeg or rudder also changing the center of resistance in relation to the center of effort.
Not sure what you meant here, Celia. Certainly kayak trim (i.e. weight distribution) has an effect on weathercocking. Overall weight may also have an effect if ‘heavier’ submerges a built in skeg more deeply - but you allowed for that possibility when you suggested the effect of hull shape.
I have one boat that l have to load backwards from normal just to make it have only normal weathercocking. Hull shape being the reason, very tight bow boat, w the other day boat being out at the end of loose bow.
So yeah weight adjusts the behavior, but the starting parameters of the two hull shapes are the most impactful parts of it.
That must have taken some good detective work. There are some who removed the built-in Nordkapp HM skeg because of lee helm problems. Some replaced it with an (adjustable) karitek skeg or just went without. Perhaps your kayak had a similar problem to that HM. I was never brave enough to mess with changing a hull.
Oops we’re ruining the thread’s intent … sorry OP.
That’s why I asked. I have to count on my fingers and toes. This is like talking about whether the car oversteers or understeers. It kick out on the back going around corners. Then it’s oversteers. So what do I do? Anti sway bar dude! How big? Big as you can get! Nah nah nah! Go to the experts. Hotchkiss!
I get the science, and bottom line is the weight transfer is changing the CLR, and the wind force is changing the Center of Lateral Effort. I get it. But I think there’s one thing to do. Recommendation to try it and see if you like it, you can change it back.
Exciting news. First time out since joining the forum. So many thing to apply. I didn’t get to the seminar, but I read the topics. One was about? Well basically engaging your whole body to reduce fatigue. Nice paddle day, fresh air going nto the east wind. So that involved getting off my seatback, which keeps slipping. So I put a surgical clamp on it. Still slipping. Bottom line is getting away from the back made me understand the discussion on backband and rotation. New direction. Also never got a description of why paddle was to long, so I tried it. Fact is I never did use high angle. I know, because the VHF radio on my vest wouldn’t allow me to do high angle. What I did figure out is I can’t do it anyway, because I can’t lift my left shoulder, but I knw one thing - a 250 cm paddle is at least 30 or 40 cm too long, so I got that going for me, which ain’t bad.
Also have a Pungo story. Coming across a seaweed bed in the delta of Gunpowder River. I see a yellow boat a 1/4 mile away. I know its a 120 Pungo. I cut a wider arch to avoid the seaweed but Pungo cuts straigh. I can see a Aqua yellow plastic blade baddle flashing. I almost catch him in my 145 and GPS clock him for about 1/2 mile. He stops paddling wipe his head. Thevbost glides as if he’s still paddling , and I’m doing a good cadence at 4.5 mph. He’s the only person I ever remember seeing on the water who was swinging from his core and itbwas apparent from 1/4 mile. He said he just applied what he learned from swimming. We exchanged numbers and told him I want him to paddle my 175 Tsunami to see what he could do in a long boat. People got to learn to stop picking on Average Joe in a rec boat with a paddle weight. Imagine what this guy might do with a good kit. I might learn some tips.
It is an older design with a deep bow and a really disappearing shallow hull as you get to the stern. Small person’s boat, long out of production. Wasn’t too hard to figure out once l compared hull shape between that and the more normal, highly rockered boat.
Talk about detective work. Look at the thread about identifying the obsolete royalex canoe with a name on it. The found the designer and got the history of the whole sheebang.
Don’t pull it so hard.
Glad you found a way to make paddling easier on your body. Yeah, 250 is a pretty long paddle.
Had a guy in the local paddling group who could put up a bow wake on a relatively slow boat. He was a fast paddler. He also had really aggressive paddling form. The group paddles local rivers and ponds so unless someone goes out in the channel enough to get run over by a barge it is usually not a problem to stay upright.
But his interest was primarily speed, heck only knows what would have happened if he had to handle 2 plus foot haystacks in a tidal exchange area. Probably some swimming.
And we complicated breaking waves further with the haystack. Reminds me of the videos of yokels riding those tidal surges up rivers. I think it happens on the Amazon, probably others. Those guys haven’t got a clue. Don’t they know you can’t use a sea kayak to ride stuff like that. I bet they can’t afford the right boat. They need a surfboard, said the surfer dude.
I learned a lot in one week, and probably got laughed at and beat on more than I was able to offer in advice, but you can learn a lot about punches by taking them, then analyze the punch delivery to understand why it hurts.
I didn’t learn as much about gear and technical aspects of paddling, except for facts about Greenland Paddles and that I never actually paddled high angle. It would have been grand if someone replied that a long paddle gives greater leverage, but it offsets power gains by creating stress on your joints and drag on the enter/exit stroke, by exceeding the design parameters of the paddle. Hard to dispute. Anyone who actually reads what I posted on this thread knows that I’m about paddle blade efficiency. Once written, it’s on the record and can only be corrected, explained or justified. Everything about proper form belies the use of a long paddle for high angle. Somebody could have shut down the conversation by replying pig manure. Instead, someone challenged me saying, I find that hard to believe. It didn’t hurt, but I though about that for days wondering how to manage the length efficiently. I couldnt reconcile on the water! Done!
What I did learn from this forum, in one week, is that dedicated paddlers love the craft and love to dwell on it enough to explore. When we sea kayakers tide surf, we shouldn’t discard it because we won’t try it. Instead, ask how they can do that and defy the parameters of boat and paddle. Maybe they have highly refined computer-like minds that combine the sensory input and enable them to bypass higher order processing, reacting instead to impulses at the brain stem level. To learn what they do, don’t focus on the technique so much how to react to the input from your sense and make it automatic. Nah! They’re not crazy, they’re nuts. Now I’ll probably get a post that says, “Are you saying I have a brain like a chicken?” I don’t know, I guess. I said it, I own it.
I kinda lost it on the last paragraph. But if you are in really messy stuff, or WW, you simply have to have some instinctive responses dialed in. There isn’t a lot of time to think. So feel the water, work w the boat as a partner in handling it.
Agree. I think I did too. But I think I’m figuring out what you just said.
Werner vs Aqua Bound
I think you will find that Werner is an older company than AB. My first paddle in the 90’s was a Werner that I liked until it broke (user error). I believe AB began in the early 2000’s as an entry-level option.
I’d suggest to you that becoming gear obsessed is not really being a gearhead, though asking questions is good. The name on the gear is not nearly as important as what it is made of, its dimensions and shape, though some companies do have better reliability and customer support.
Absolute. Researching and seeking the best you can get is logical. Getting the best product for your money is prudent. I figured it out by getting something that looked good and felt strong. I went from $110, to $139, to $199, to $250, to $459 my last touring paddle. The Kalliste. I love that paddle. I don’t care what anybody else uses. If I recommend an into paddle, it’s a Aqua Manta Ray or Sting Ray. Sturdy, good price point, good balance. If you do trips over 10 miles I recommend a Camano. 20 miles it’s a Kalliste. But if you say, iwant a good first paddle- Kalliste. Isn’t it kind of expensive? Not really. But I want to push pole up through narrow rivulets and mangrove. OH, why didn’t you say so - you want a plastic blade. One of the Aquas. I thought you liked Werner better? Good grief. What about this brand. Never used it. How about this $69 Harmony. Got one in 230 cm. How is it. The tomato plants are still standing. Is Harmony connected to Wilderness. You like Wilderness, don’t you. Yes. But not thst paddle I used it.
Regarding the question in the OP, I have a Werner bent shaft Kalliste, 5th paddle in 45 years. I can’t think of anything you could do to improve on it, so its no surprise to me that a lot of dedicated kayakers end up with a Werner.
Aqua Bound has been around since at least the 90’s, started out as a Canadian company and then ended up being a US one.
In my opinion it has way more to do with marketing than actual quality. Aqua Bound makes a wide range of paddles, and many lower end, entry level models. So they get a reputation for lower quality because there are so many entry level paddlers using them. However, they also make excellent top end paddles, just not as well know for them as Werner. The first thing you need to do is determine if you are a low angle or high angle paddler and then purchase a paddle with a blade shape suited for your paddling style. I am I high angle paddler but not super powerful. I use a Aqua Bound Whiskey paddle in the full carbon construction. It is super lightweight and very stiff so it is easy to paddle all day and get good power transfer with each stroke. The build quality and performance is every bit as good as Werner and the posiloc ferrule is a really nice feature.
I love my AB Tango (carbon shaft / fiberglass blades) but I don’t have much to compare it to, and have not put it through the wringer. I’m not experienced enough to give any kind of analysis. We both started out with the Bending Branches Whisper, which was the most highly-rated beginner paddle on REI. Paired nicely with the beat-up used boats we started with. We just wanted to make sure we were actually going to like the sport before investing much. When I saw a Tango at a shop, next to a Werner Camano, I had to pick them up. I LOVED the feel of the Tango in my hands (even more so in the bent shaft version, but I was afraid the length might be more critical there, so it scared me off for now). I didn’t like the feel of the Camano as well. However, that was standing in a shop, not using it on the water. The same shop had a few other models - Sting Ray and Manta Ray, if I remember correctly. No comparison to the other two. Hefting them, they just felt heavy and like they wouldn’t be worth the step up. Probably light years better than what I had, but not what I wanted.
When I was researching, I was intrigued by the BB Navigator. Gorgeous in the pictures, but I’ve never seen one in person. It is a little heavier, probably due to the “Plus” version having a telescoping shaft. I’d love to meet one in person, and get and experienced paddler’s opinion of it. Has anyone here used one?
You got it. Paddles are personal things and tools. When you paddle for 5 hours, you become a part of it and expect it. I thought I was connected to the boat before, but connecting with so many members, it’s more than the information. As I interact, the focus seems to move the muscles in miniscule ways. I feel more fluid in the boat. I worked with a forensic guy who knew hypnosis, subliminal stuff, progressive relaxation and everything unnatural. He worked with rehabilitation therapy (there’s a tech name like Occupational). Archer had his arm in a cast, 6 weeks or more. He worked with visualization. It worked the fine muscle, sympathetic something, nerve links. The sum is that he never lost the skill. Forget about the story, just remember, we can only get on the water so often in our busy schedule, but all you have to do is “Thing about smooth waves and cool Bud!” Somebody out there surely knows about such things and could start a thread.