Keep in mind
that most paddlers, especially newbies or newbies to open water, tend to grossly overestimate wave heights. See it all the time.
A legitimate 4 footer would cause most folks to have to look up to see the crest if you’re sitting in the trough. This may have been true in the OP’s situation, as I wasn’t there to see the waves. However, most people forget that they’re sitting at water level when they estimate wave height.
But the statement that a paddle float rescue would be hard or impossible in 4 footers is true - a roll or an assisted rescue is far preferred over a paddle float in that situation, IMO.
Paddling a couple of weeks??
I paddle the Thimbles all the time and so does Wayne. It’s a beautiful place to paddle but can kick up some big standing waves in some spots on a windy day. But as you know, you can hide behind islands and find easy passage everywhere. It’s good you’re getting your bravery over now while the water is warm and there’s lots of boats around. You can get into trouble without rescue skills and boat handling experience so just don’t get too cocky and learn to roll this winter. Or come to Cedar lake in Chester on Weds from 4:00 on for free demos / instruction / fun and food and friends. (ConnYak)
Cedar Lake
Sounds Great. I will try to make it to Cedar lake this Wed for sure.
I Have been paddling for about 3 weeks now. Every day. Practicing as much as my body will allow. Paddle Float rescues, Assisted rescues, and working on a roll.
The conditions when we set out that morning seemed just fine, but things got rough really quick when we got to the outside of the islands. I knew that if I went over I would have a hard time getting back in the boat. So we headed back in. I really dont think I am exaggerating 3-4’ swells. I was looking way up at the tops of the waves from my boat. but who knows. All I know for sure is that it got too rough for me so I went back.
rough
– Last Updated: Sep-11-10 5:54 PM EST –
rough? thas when waves start to break etc.3feet breaking waves on a lake and a F7 might be concidered rough, while a F5 might be rough on open ocean. fetch and current is important. you can get huge swell from one direction and wind waves on top from the side.all kinds of things. I study lots of videoes on you tube.
clapotis..etc learn the terms. study the beaufort wind scale. its very useful/important+fun!
this one is awesome."violent storm force 11 -smoking water" you tube
rough
Are all sea kayaks like this? and at what point is it considered “rough” conditions?
I would suggest that a good definition of “rough” is whatever you are not comfortable in (or nearing the edge of your comfort zone). Or, if you are in a group however the group defines “rough”. But, your definition is the most important to you. However someone else defines rough that does not paddle with you probably does not matter.
Sea kayaks are different. Rough for me in a Nigel Foster kayak was a light chop. Rough for me in an Explorer were waves breaking over my kayak or surfing me from back quarter.
Next time, try throwing a few gallon jugs of water in your kayak to add ballast and see if that helps. Keep the weight near you - not out at the ends.
David
If I can’t
set the paddle down on the cockpit rim while I tie a different fly on my tippet it’s too rough. If I can’t cast without fighting it’s too windy. Time to paddle to a quiet place and have a cold one.
you should…
learn to eskimoroll with your flyrod,man! hehe …and speycasts , snakerolls works great…i used to flycast from a qaanaaq 512…difficoult to begin with, but after a while it got very natural…
to take it a step further
I’ve always found my Nigel Foster Legend handles well in rough conditions.
ROUGH & YOUR BOAT & YOU…
I concur with what’s been noted above… but here’s a bit more…
I have an old Eclipse, and it’s a fine boat in a rough chop -tho’ I haven’t been in anything much over a close-period 2’ chop in a stiff breeze. That’s a fairly bouncy, rock & roll, ‘rough’ situation for many paddlers. The “E”'s a fine boat as long as you’re fit into it, and the rudder works and is deployed -it can handle this kind of rough pretty well. As to the rudder -make sure to check out your entire rudder system, make sure the footpeg sliders work well, the lines run free through their tubes, and your rudder pivot is adjusted and lubed. Getting it stuck in a non0neutral position is the pits in wind and chop…
As to 4-foot waves… think about judging wave height: sit on the floor, and measure up to eye-level, then let’s say add a couple inches for max seat height. Whatever that measurement is on you -and I’m thinking that it’s going to be less than a yard -is “wave height” -and a wave height you’ll barely or not be able to see over when down in the trough…
And as for you finding it “work” to keep the boat going in those conditions, bracing and all just to keep upright -seat time, and learning to relax and do the hip-slip kayak-hula -will probably find you thinking things are not so bad after all with maybe a half-dozen similar sessions under your keel.
It would probably increase your confidence to learn some self-rescue skills, and join those groups your were notified about -group paddles inspire confidence, and you can learn by talking to your fellow paddlers, and by watching them in similar stuff, as you
PADDLE ON!
-Frank in Miami
Yeah, Id say those were rough conditions
I think I used to have that same boat. It was a Perception “shadow” sea lion, which was a carry over from when Perception bought out Aquaterra and eventually I think they renamed it the “Eclipse”. Anyways, it was a pretty fast and sleek looking boat, but it weathercocked a lot without the rudder and the fast rounded hull had less stability that later (narrower) boats that I had. Those later boats had fuller or hard chines, which limited top speed but felt way more stable in rough water.
I don’t think so Sven,
the “barge” that I use to fish would make 180 degrees of a roll at best. I would like to fish in your part of the world some day. I have a cousin in Stockholm and would love to have the spare cash to visit family there.
casting from a kayak.
let me know if you come…what kind of rod /line do you like…i think long singlehanded speyrods are great.
i have a classic bruce and walker 11,3 #5/6 its awesome…extremely deep, slow action…oh lost in space again…Anyway flycasting from a kayak is great balance training…fun and effective…
sorry to…
– Last Updated: Oct-08-10 3:50 PM EST –
go astray. Rough actually is a description of a seastate...i think it starts at BF 6? Bf 8 is very rough..bf 9 HIGH waves etcv..i think it is quite right on lakes and protected waters too.. at about BF6 the waves gets "rougher" more and bigger waves bigin to break..At about bf7 more waves break and foam starts to be blown in streaks..no matter on a small lake or at an exposed coast line.
In the kayak
I use a Thomas & Thomas 9’ #6 with weight forward floating line. It gets out probably 40 or 50 feet from sitting position, which is more than enough for the size water I normally fish in. I can deliver some pretty light flys with a gentle landing. That’s mostly what I care about.
False wave height measurement
NOAA defines wave height as trough to crest:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/educate/waves.shtml
So a 4 foot wave face is really a 4 foot wave. I know the general science definition is as you describe, but I think the NOAA definition is the standard for “nautical” waves.
That having been said, kayakers frequently overestimate wave height because of the perspective from the seated position. I try to use the horizon as reference: if when you are in the trough, the crest meets the horizon, the wave height is about 3 feet (approximate eye level in a kayak). In my experience, the view to open water is a better indicator than the view to shore - it can be difficult to determine the actual horizon line against beach/cliffs/trees.
think about it for a minute
I’m assuming you are approximately 6 feet tall give or take a few inches—sitting in the cockpit of your kayak, a four foot swell with breaking waves on top would hide you from everything when you are down in the trough of the swell—your head would be about a foot lower than the top of the wave—was that what it was like? If so, no wonder you were nervous after only three weeks paddling–
the answer is more time in your boat with more training then practice what you learned afterwards—also I would listen to NOAA marine weather reports stating wind and waves (and small craft warnings) before I went out—I’ve been out when small craft warning were posted and had a great time but I’ve been at this quite a while and when conditions are up, I generally give myself bailout points and don’t plan any long open crossings. At your stage of development, I wouldn’t try going far out when the small craft flag is up.
On occasions where conditions have come up unexpectedly, I know that I’m nervous when I look at my paddle aftewards and see my finger prints in the shaft.–lol
Small craft warnings wind 35 knots
I was out in these conditions and it was the roughest paddling that I have ever done. Advice, take the small craft warning to heart it’s dangerous out there . FishHawk
beaufort 8 gale…
– Last Updated: Oct-12-10 7:42 AM EST –
here we go.. most paddlers , myself included seems to conclude that progress is brought to a stop at about
BF 8 17-18 m/sek..on an open exposed coastline , the conditions can become very heavy/dangerous for a kayaker. Wind catches paddleblades and kayak. If you wanna practice this kind of stuff, do it in a place with limited FETCH. Find a place where you can sneak in and out of the wind,and preferrably with a safe landing place. Current, wind duration and fetch/direction is of utmost importance..look here..great music too
http://www.youtube.com/user/frankwildcat#p/u/33/cnKMR2XivzA
next on a lake...
ive paddled quite a bit in conditions like this , and its fun, very good training and relativey safe
i definately prefer a greenlandpaddle for this kind of stuff..mine i 240 with narrow blades...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz5y-kbvK_E