The old “stick stethoscope” trick
Yeah Monkey, you are mimicking the old trick of using a dowel to bridge between an engine and one's ear to listen for strange sounds. Works better with a blunt tip on a GP.
Jim
Work with it
As I said above, it’s a matter of altering your stoke to balance the forces on the paddle. It’s not difficult, you just need to experiment a bit and once you get it, you’ll know it. You’ll feel comfortable and the paddle will feel much more solid in the water.
A rearward cant is going to get you nowhere in terms of using the paddle effectively.
That’s the key
Air bubbles rising to the surface would be a dead giveaway of ventilation. If you hear the noise, then see air bubbles, it is definitely ventilation.
If you hear the scratchy noise, but no air bubbles rise to the surface, then it might be cavitation. The noise of cavitation is the sound of the bubbles (filled with water vapor, not air, not a vacuum) collapsing immediately after generation. If a paddle could ever generate cavitation, it would be only briefly, and the bubbles would collapse almost instantly because the high-velocity regime would be so small. Once the bubbles exit a high-speed zone they collapse immediately.
Compensate with top hand push
Actively punching down and across with the top hand should really help your paddle control and power application.
This is something that induces bad technique in other paddles, but the downward cross punching top hand is integral to GP stroke.
Since you mentioned Maligiaq - I think he estimates he uses 60 percent punch and 40% pull (largely via core/rotation/crunch powering both). Core does the bulk of the work regardless, but whatever arm component is employed - triceps have considerably more size/power/endurance than biceps.
See mty post above NM
Even more with carbon GP NM
Paddle diving
You may require less cant depending on you’re paddling style. Don’t get all worked up over it and just keep paddling. This method will take time to get used to. For now just focus on a clean entry and exit. Think smooth and quiet. The rest will come later.
My first GP experience was awefull but now it’s all I use.
Gary
AKA more levering, less pulling NM
Greyak is right
The forward canted blade will feel odd and uncomfortable at first because of the feeling of wanting to pull the kayak over, but if you push down and across with the top hand it eliminates this. Start out by giving the blade very little angle until you get a comfortable stroke developed. Different shaped paddles will react a little bit differently to the forward canted stroke, narrow blades can be canted quite a bit to enhance the bite of the stroke while wider blades can be limited to how far you will want to cant them because of the increased bite they can develop.
When I first started using a greenland paddle I felt just like you, it felt awkward and I couldn’t see any big advantage over a euro paddle. After taking a couple classes from competent greenland paddling instructors I was able to use the paddle much more efficiently and grew to like it and enjoy some of it’s advantages. Learning to use a greenland paddle is a journey and can teach you more than you can imagine about paddling.
First outing with newly carved paddle
If anyone is still reading this thread…
I made my first GP of a nice, light redwood 2x4. I fiberglassed the last 7 inches of each end, since the wood is so soft. Did about 4 miles today, my first real experience with a GP.
The paddle actually motivated the kayak pretty well. Should’ve had GPS for a relative check. I was able to use it with several slightly different postures and cadences. But, got the scratching sound noted in this thread with every stroke. And, it was hard to do any maneuvering stroke that didn’t want to flutter.
So, I guess my paddle shape could be better. I used Chuck Holst’s directions. I note that this does NOT produce blades that are 3/8 inch thin over a large area, as someone here or elsewhere had stated – though I can see how the instructions could be misinterpreted to do so.
I did not get as much diamond shape at the halfway point and above as instructions call for; did a bit too much sanding up there. With the scratching sound, I’m not sure if I should have made the blade edges finer, or if the tips are wrong, with the epoxy semi-squared to 1/16 inch.
Any comments, for possibly a second effort?
Finer edges
Seem to me are more prong to this scratching noises - more sensitive to technique.
As for the diamond shape, that I'm still scratching my head about that (pun intended). The GP I just made (my second overall that I have made but I also have a Lumpy), has a very pronounced diamond shape and is thicker than my Lumpy. The two behave quite differently even though the blade areas for both are almost the same. Both have some + and - and it seems to me it would depend on how you like to paddle for whether one would work for you better or not.
From the very limited comparative paddling I've done with both head to head, I can tell that the slimmer and more oval paddle is better for sculling and slicing and feels looser in the water (more maneuverable but less stable/assuring). The more diamond-shaped feels more forgiving and does not need so much of a canted angle to get a good bite, but at the same time flutters a bit more, canted or not.
I need to paddle them more, but my first impression is that I would prefer less of a diamond shape with a fine but oval edge for maneuvering, and bracing and rolling. Basically, a nice hydrofoil shape. But I *might* prefer more of a diamond shape for just going forward at a good pace - I kind of liked the more planted feeling of my new GP compared to the more oval other one I have.
Anyway, about the scratching noise - I have to work hard to get these in my new paddle, where they are relatively easy to get in the Lumpy. At the same time, the Lumpy, when used correctly, is also quiet and as a bonus has a cleaner entry and expecially exit. So, before you carve the next one, my suggestion is to put some miles on this one you got to finetune your technique, borrow some more paddles to see how they feel to you and get some ideas about how to shape the next one...
I'm still confused though and not really sure about that above yet - need to paddle more, so I might as well be wrong... And I'm in the same boat so to speak - have had a nice WRC board in the garage sitting there for several months now, waiting for me to figure out what to do out of it -;)
Canted Stroke has been around…
Just to keep the history from being lost in a sea of confusion, the canted blade stroke is not an invention of Maligiaq Padilla, he learned it from his Grandfather and it’s popular in many areas of SW Greenland. There’s also some old texts outside of Greenland (Caribou Kayaks) that describe the canted stroke.
Before the Greenlanders came and started teaching Americans (in the late 1980’s) we tried to use a GP with the same “rules” that we learned for a Euro. That included putting all of our fingers on the paddle shaft. Seems like common sense but If you do this the blades will orient vertically and you tend to get flutter. The Greenlanders emphasized that you hold a GP so that only your thumbs and forefingers are on the shaft, with your remaining fingers draped over the blades. This causes the paddle blades to tilt forward naturally because the palm of your hand is tilted forward when your wrist is straight (open your hand and look). If you have a paddle that fits well this will happen without any conscious manipulation. No rules to remember.
When a paddle first flutters and then the fluttering stops, obviously the kayaker has made some unconscious compensations. I’d bet that they improved their catch (by fully and quickly burying the blade) and probably added a very slight blade angle at the catch without realizing it. You don’t need much.
Greg Stamer
Some pointers
are on the Qajaq USA site. Take a look at http://www.qajaqusa.org/Technique/Strokes.html and it will help you to get started.
Greg Stamer
I get that hollow sound also
with my Beale gp sometimes. I will have to pay more attention to when it happens. I think with a little too much power but i will need to pay more attention.
I paddled my sit on top with a euro blade (Aquabound carbon stingray) today and it felt like the blade was sticking in the water and i had to really pull it out. Odd - I must have lost the technique. The gp goes thru the water like butter - so smooth in comparison.
Paddling’s Easy
Here’s how you brace and roll with one… that wood that’s in the water… push down and forward. Down and forward. Feel that lift. Over and over.
Down and forward.
Feel that lift.
Paddle path and other tips
Unlike a wing paddle that is designed to move away from the kayak during the stroke, it is up to you to keep the forward canted GP from “wanting” to dive into the side of the kayak. When you learn to control these forces the paddle will feel that it has developed incredible “bite”.
One tip: bury the blade completely and then simply rotate your torso (like using a wing paddle) without actively using your arms. If your kayak allows it, rotate all the way down to your seat (your butt should be rotating in the seat). If you do this the paddle blade will enter the water close to (or touching) the kayak, and will flare away from the hull so that at the end of the stroke the paddle will be about 18" or so, away from the side of the boat. Push with the leg on the side of the stroke, this helps you to rotate your torso.
While doing this you want good posture – sitting upright on your sit bones and rotating about your spine. Think rotate. DON’T tilt from side to side (some people think tilting is necessary to offset the canted blade but this is not correct and will ruin the trim of the kayak. You want the kayak to run flat and true for good efficiency.
Although letting the paddle flare out is very popular with wing paddlers, this technique is not new. In one area of Greenland that I visited the youngsters are taught that the paddle blade should follow the waves that diverge away from the bow, rather than having the blade move straight back. That said, there are a number of different techniques – I’m suggesting this one because it often “cures” the fault of the paddle diving into the kayak.
I hear a lot about pushing and pulling with the arms. If you simply plant the blade in the water and rotate your torso, you will feel push/pull forces in your arms (more pull than push), but this is only a sensation. Think of your arms as only linkages with your torso as the engine. This lets the big muscles of your torso and legs control the small muscles of your arms. In other words, “let the dog wag the tail” (big muscles control the action). An arm paddler is an example of the “tail wagging the dog”…
Note: I use as much torso rotation as a kayak design will permit. In ultra-low-volume Greenland kayaks you don’t have room to pump your legs or rotate very much, and that is when I use techniques such as an abdominal crunch, punching the top hand downward, etc.
Greg Stamer