I don’t mean to be persnickety…
... medicineman, but could you edit your post so that it has a few more paragraph breaks at useful places, with blank lines separating?
I sense there are interesting thoughts in there. But reading a "wall of words" is really difficult and slow, so I can't get over the threshold to find out, with all the other stuff there is to read on PNet, the web, and the rest of the world.
Thanks. --David.
Common BCU / ACA myths
I have heard a lot of myths about the BCU and ACA both on this forum and in person. I am certainly not an expert but I will go ahead and try to dispel a few of them.
Cost… you have to pay for assessments in both structures, but not necessarily instruction. BCU 1/2/3/4/5 star training does not officially exist. It is strictly a North American phenomenon. If you go to the UK and ask for a BCU 3 star training course people will look at you a bit odd. The star training that happens in the UK usually takes place through clubs and groups. I am happy to offer instruction when I am out paddling with folks, as are lots of other people I have met.
The BCU needs to makes its events less expensive… The BCU doesn’t organize the events or set pricing for them. The company that puts on the event sets up all of the pricing, scheduling, and classes. If you think the cost of an class is too high let the company putting on the event know.
I learned this the ACA way which is different from the BCU way… Just because you learned something from and ACA certified instructor, or a BCU certified instructor, doesn’t mean you learned a particular systems way of doing things. The BCU does have particulars when it comes to strokes. But these are more about how the strokes works and its safety, not always the mechanics of the stroke. The ACA’s guidelines are pretty vague compared to the BCU so you get more variance.
Greenland paddles… interesting thing… Almost all of the Greenland paddling I have been exposed to has been at Symposiums with a BCU focus. I have seen people take, and pass, 2,3, and 4 star assessments with Greenland style paddles. And all of the BCU focused symposiums I have been to have had several Greenland rolling, paddling, and boat building classes. The ACA does have a Greenland endorsement but I am not that familiar with it.
The BCU’s symposium only focus on BCU stuff… don’t tell anyone but there are lots of non-BCU classes at those things. Most of the coaches will be BCU coaches, but a lot of the classes do not have anything official to do with the BCU. Everyone should go and check these classes out. You don’t have to join the ‘pyramid scheme’ to get something good out of the events.
A couple of other bits… what is required in the star training might be tweaked a bit. This should create a more even continuum between the star levels. I have also heard that BCU North America (BCUNA) is working hard to become more relevant to North American paddling locations and conditions. As for whitewater and surf, the BCU has programs for both of those too, and many others. If you look on the website ‘Inland’ is the Brit code word for whitewater paddling.
I hope I haven’t stepped on Kelly’s toes or put my foot too far into my mouth.
My synonyms for the BCU type are…
swashbuckling, elegant and above all chivalrous. Think of the nautical world's Sean Connery versus the ACA's Joe Pesci.
On a more serious note, it is not so much who you are and what you say, It's how you say it. I have had very positive dealings with the BCU, some of them wielding greenland sticks the entirety of an assessment.
Rob G
I’m intrested in the BCU
Honestly this is the first I have heard of BCU. I’m new to this site and have been into whitewater kayaking only over the years.
I am however happy to hear of another source for instruction. Instruction is good for everyone! I have had the honor of teaching over 300 clinics as an instructor for ACA. Regardless of organization I believe that an instructor should be patient and excited with others progression. Not to mention knowledgable and ready to give advice. With that foundation students will excell on their own.
That’s the rub in NA
"BCU 1/2/3/4/5 star training does not officially exist. It is strictly a North American phenomenon. If you go to the UK and ask for a BCU 3 star training course people will look at you a bit odd."
So it seems that in the US what everyone is really talking about rather removed from how things work in the UK and could be described as a interesting set of commercial ventures which use the BCUNA to provide brass rings for those who seek them. BCUNA to date does not seem to provide either the breadth of activities or services and certainly is not a club as the BCU appears to be in the UK. On the other hand, given that in the US many people involved in outdoor sports tend to be independent and for whom the concept of certification is often repugnant, it is easy to see why some might not have an interest in the whole assessment game regardless of the value of the coaching provided in the BCU centered symposiums or whatever.
Frankly, asking a question about what people think of “BCU paddlers” is itself an interesting statement as if there were such a thing or as if they were some separate class of paddlers. Unless I am mistaken, there are paddlers who have received BCU training and there are paddlers who have passed BCU assessments, but does that make them inherently “BCU paddlers”. I rather think it makes them competent paddlers among many competent paddlers whose competencies were obtained in many ways.
As someone said, then there are the followers and as someone else said among the followers are a few prigs. Of course that is the way it is everywhere and has nothing to do with BCUNA or the BCU scene in the US. The coaches and paddlers I have met who are active in the BCUNA system have all been open, flexible, and not dogmatic. I have found the training provided to be helpful and worthwhile.
I do wonder at times that many seem to constantly attend this or that symposium, but I don’t hear them talking about actually go out and journeying and using what they learned. Isn’t the point to become competent so you can with a decent measure of safety go out and have wonderful adventures on the ocean? Maybe not for some and to each his own.
Club system
The kind of club system that exists in the UK doesn’t happen here, and my sense is that the star steps are the still there but they are so embedded within the club structures that they don’t jump out. I know, for example, that there is regularly training labeled as 5 star in the UK (the US can’t rely on getting sufficient conditions for that training).
There will be some changes in the steps. The 4 star is going to include some more enunciated leadership skills (which I think makes sense). I am not sure that the rest of it is changes as much as continuing the emphasis from the last year or so of really encouraging paddlers to go thru the 2 star syllabus to give them a better grounding for the 3 star work. In this country, the 2 star syllabus was kinda brushed aside for quite a while.
I’ve heard that "conditions"
argument, and it should be “readily available / easy to access” conditions. Alaska comes to mind as a region with “adequate” conditions!! Ever pass round Cape Chacon on a big ebb? Whew…
Just too remote up there.
But BC has tidal races that are world renowned and every bit adequate.
BCU North America
The web site for the BCU in the US is: http://www.bcuna.com/
Various BCU coaches and centers (e.g. Steve Maynard, John Carmody, Jed Luby, Maine Island Kayak, Sea Kayak Georgia, Body, Boat, and Blade, etc…)have websites with much useful information.
Around where I live and work (Capital District of NYS) there is a growing interest in the BCU.
The Eastern US RCO is faculty at Plattsburgh State College. St Michael’s College in Vermont runs a BCU weekend which includes both sea (Lake Champlain) and inland (whitewater) sessions.
BTW, there is only a BCU fee if you pass an assessment. There is no BCU fee if you do not pass.
Body, Boat and Blade
does 5 Star training in the Northwest. Maine Island Kayak has done 5 Star training on the coast of Maine. I believe that Carpe Diem (Bar Harbor) has offered 5* training in conjunction with Sea Cliff Kayaking, lead by Steve Maynard, on the coast of Maine as well.
Good people, sure. So?
Maybe you can’t separate the organization from it’s people - but saying how great everyone is (and I am sure they are) as the way to promote the BCU experience starts to sound almost defensive. Certainly a positive aspect - but I find people in and out of all sorts of organizations who are interesting/personable/competent. Telling me this about BCU people doesn’t tell me much about BCU.
Saying people like or dislike BCU system simply based on whether they have experience with BCU people is also discounting a myriad of potentially useful outside opinions. It’s really just another way of justifying your choices/opinions while degrading others. Insiders rule, outsiders drool - right?
Of course people who have made a choice/commitment/investment in BCU will rate it positively. There is a VERY good reason for organizations to have a ranking/rating system: People feel they gotten something for their investment. If they advance easily - it shows them how good they are. If they advance slowly, it shows them how good the program is! They can feel they’ve made a good choice either way and have evidence either way. Really plays into human nature (not all bad, as the training is what matters and it’s in there).
pyranhakelly asked for opinions. I would think getting them from OUTSIDE the BCU would be most useful to efforts to improve and grow the organization. I would hope they already have internal feedback mechanisms set up.
Two things it might help to change…
… at least for US kayakers:
Expand!!!
I have thought about getting some BCU training, but live in the Midwest. I can not spend that much money traveling and staying hundreds (or thousands) of miles away. If you want to grow than you must offer training in places other that FL, SC, AK, and OR ( all that is listed on your calendar). You have a presents on the coasts. You now must move into the rest of the US. If you don’t than you will be seen and have the “coastal mentality” (meaning “Nothing of any importance ever happen anywhere but on a coast”)
If you want total support than offer total support.
The Bicycle World
Those of us with a road bicycling / racing background are somewhat puzzled by BCU and ACA stuff. The USCF is a governing body that primarily makes rules for bike racing and categorizing racers. That's about it.
In the United States I'd guess the bicycle has about a hundred years on the kayak and no ACA or BCU-like entity is associated with it... that I'm aware of.
Kinda sad
The RCO in the midwest doesn’t post these trainings on the BCUNA website. what’s with that?
Hear great things about that operation
Cool
But how would someone like me who do not know of these site find out where the training is heald. The first timer would go the the BCU site and see nothing near them.
You might want to look at your marketing. Make it easier to locate these training sessions. Maybe place an annoucement P net . . . over 100,000 P netters could improve the attendance
Thanks for the link.
See you all at one of their sessions.
BCU thoughts
Kayaking used to be about the journey and the experience and we seemed to have evolved to “trainings” and “conditions”. Everyone wants to hang out with the cool kids.
The BCU has a great teaching model and the trainings I have done have been by top notch coaches. I much prefer the informal assessment during training to the judgemental test for stars. Not worth the money in my opinion. Having the stars doesn’t mean much if you don’t use the skills.
I do find the “rock star” image some of the coaches are promoting to be a little over the top. I know they need to make a living but it gets kind of snobbish some times. And again, they tend to all be really great folks.
So what is a BCU paddler? Skills, risk assessment, safety, environmentaly aware, and in it for the journey . . . . maybe.
BCU coaches in the Midwest
I think there are 16 BCU coaches listed in the Midwest:
http://www.bcuna.com/pages/Main-Pages/Coaches.shtml
You could contact any number of the coaches listed in your region to find out about available training.
I seem to recall Michigan being a strong center of BCU activities.
Only ignorance & inexperience valuable?
I believe the thread is evolving as a conversation among paddlers. The participants range from those with no knowledge or experience of the BCU to those with a great amount of experience.
I think those with some actual knowledge and experience can be as valuable to this conversation as those with none.
I do not speak for the BCU or anyone other than myself. My note that the folks I'VE encountered who dislike the BCU have not had any real experience with its most common presence (BCU coaches) is simply MY experience. It does not denigrate or dismiss others.
BTW, it is the people who are part of the organization that a paddler intersects with not "The BCU." So, yes good people are important to any organization that interacts with human beings. I've fired people who were not "good people."