What part of thigh should the braces contact?

Advice
#21

Thanks for the video. I’ve been watching tons of videos on how to paddle and sit in the boat. I’m working on it all.

Pete, I can’t get anything covering my heels bc my feet won’t fit. I desperately want to wear some shoes, hence the reason I made my custom fit flip flops. It was better than nothing.

Celia, do you know if the seat base can be moved back a little bit on the Tempest? That would solve my foot room problem I believe, allowing me to wear an actually water shoe that covers the heel and toes.

#22

I don’t know the Tempest outfitting well enough to answer whether the seat can be moved. Best suggestion is to look around. If getting more leg length and/or more foot flexibility is the answer, there are a couple of ways to mess with that which would work if the seat can’t be moved back. For the feet, lose the foot pegs and put in minicell shaped to the interior of the boat against the forward bulkhead. The brace directly against that. More options on angles for the feet. My own primary boats are set up that way, once you try it you will wonder why you ever wanted foot pegs. The other would be to take the seat out completely (since the back band is usually fairly adjustable) and replace it with a minicell seat pan affixed to the bottom of the boat via wood cement or an epoxy like lexel. You can shape the seat to something that your posterior find comfortable, and you may look in there and find that it would not be a huge deal to take the original seat out then put it back in for resale. Take a look at the systems offered by Redfish, may be more out there. Last I knew you could get a basic just-the-seat part from Redfish, simpler than the fully integrated thing shown in this link, but it might take a phone call. http://www.redfishkayak.com/seats.htm

#23

Interesting. Thanks for the info and the link. I’m going play around with the seating right now.

#24

Adventure 357, I haven’t paddled a Tempest, but can’t figure out why a 6’1" guy can’t fit in that sea kayak without any problem. I suspect that you are doing something inappropriate. I’m 6’ tall, and have fit in many very tight whitewater kayaks, which are a lot smaller than the typical sea kayak. If you bought your Tempest at a local store, I suggest that you bring your kayak back to the store and ask for some help in getting comfortable in the standard factory outfitting. If you ordered the kayak from an internet retailer, I suggest that you get together with an experienced local kayaker and get some help in adjusting your kayak’s outfitting. You shouldn’t have to replace your seat and/or your foot braces to get comfortable.

Here’s the basics of how to get your feet into a tight kayak, and how to adjust your foot braces: Sit in your kayak with your thighs gently on the thigh braces. Put your heels together, with your toes pointing forward and out to the side. Put the balls of your feet on the foot braces. Adjust your foot braces until when you push with the balls of your feet, it pushes the back of your hips firmly into your back band. With the small pedal-style foot braces in a Tempest, if you want to relax, you should be able to easily put your feet behind the foot braces and straighten your legs.

I’m a guy who likes to outfit my kayaks. For example, I have a Prijon Yukon Expedition, which is a 14’5" kayak which is kind of a cross between a sea kayak and a whitewater kayak, handles Class III rapids quite nicely, and is well known as an expedition kayak. I thought that the outfitting sucked, so I replaced the foot pegs with a bulkhead-style foot brace, I added thigh braces, I replaced the back band, and I added several other features. But you shouldn’t have to do anything to your Tempest. It should be fine right out of the box.

#25

Pete, I thank you for your advice. Not knowing exactly how I “should” fit is the reason I started the thread. Just sitting on my living room floor in the “kayak” position with my heels close together as directed is uncomfortable. I sprained my ankle pretty bad about 6 weeks ago and I believe that is the main source of my issues. While paddling, I’m constantly trying to position my foot more “upright” where it won’t hurt, which causes my thigh to be overworked, which brings on the discomfort. Maybe once the ankle is 100% it will be fine. I imagine the more I do it the more I will get accustomed to the tight fit. I sat in it today and adjusted everything as good as I could get it. Having the back support secured made a difference. I’m anxious to get back on the water and see how it feels.

#26

.> @Adventure357 said:

Maybe once the ankle is 100% it will be fine. I imagine the more I do it the more I will get accustomed to the tight fit.

When you are braced between your footbraces, your backband, and your thigh braces, your kayak should fit you like a big ski boot. Tight perhaps, but comfortable. But you can also relax and stretch when you don’t need to be controlling your kayak. Pull your knees up into the front of your cockpit rim. Put your feet between the foot braces and straighten your legs.

Everybody’s back is different, but here’s what keeps my back happy: sitting straight upright, with the help of my backstrap pushing firmly on the back of my hips. With my backstrap adjusted properly, I can paddle day after day with no discomfort. If my backstrap gets just a little loose, it allows me to slouch a bit, and my back starts hurting. If I tighten up my backstrap, the pain disappears.

Many years ago, I regularly got back spasms as a result of an injury. I think that a lot of kayaking cured me by strengthening my core muscles. I don’t have any back problems now

#27

The best on-line article I know on the subject is by Bryan Hansel:
http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/how-to-adjust-a-sea-kayak/
Nick.

1 Like
#28

@Adventure357
Heels close together is never how I have paddled, not is it the “kayak position”. Unless the space is so confined that you can’t be in any other position, but in a Tempest 160 at your size this should not be an issue. Unless you have unusually large sized feet. You need the ability to contact something with your feet for pedaling in a forward stroke or for some amount of edging (though shifting your butt over accomplishes the same thing without the stress, a reason to have a couple of inches of side wiggle room). As others above have said, you need to be able to take your feet out of position and straighten or wiggle your legs around. Heels do end up on the bottom of the kayak no matter what you are doing, so eventually sandals are an issue there (an for other reasons).,

I increasingly think you have yourself entirely too jammed in, partly self-imposed. The thigh soreness mostly indicates that you are working too hard and staying tight rather than relaxing. Get yourself somewhere to people who know what they are doing and can sit you in a boat and show you.

#29

Celia, my ankle is already hurt from a severe sprain 6 weeks ago. I was on crutches for 2 weeks and believe it or not, it is still swollen a bit. When I sit in the kayak and get my toes flared out and my heels closer together, it hurts. It sort of starts a chain reaction that ends up with me not being comfortable. I didn’t realize this until yesterday when I was watching videos on how to paddle. I was sitting on the floor felt the same level of discomfort as sitting in the kayak. Hopefully that is all there is to it. Once my ankle is healed up, maybe I’ll be comfy.

#30

@nickcrowhurst said:
The best on-line article I know on the subject is by Bryan Hansel:
http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/how-to-adjust-a-sea-kayak/
Nick.

Thanks for the link

#31

Pete,
I’m with you on the back support. I like mine pretty vertical. My wife teases me bc my truck seat is pretty straight up. That is what works for me.

#32

357, do not get discouraged if you have all kinds of aches and pains and general discomfort when you’re first getting started. You are putting your body in a position and using muscles that you are not used to. Besides getting adjusted as best you can and using the best technique you can, there is still going to be a break-in period and it could go on for years. The only way I know to get over it is lots of time in the kayak.

I pulled a hamstring muscle a few weeks ago; that and the weather have kept me from being on the water for too long now. I did finally put one of the boats on the lawn to see if I could even get in and out without staining that hamstring. Not a problem at all and what is even weirder is that the boat even felt lighter than usual when I carried it out of the shop to the lawn. I think what helped me with healing–which is still going on–is that I was able to ride my bike, even when I could barely walk. By the way, any of you who have never had a serious hamstring pull, I can’t recommend it.

#33

I have paddled a Tempest 170 Pro for about five years now. Also close in size, I am 6’, 215. About the only thing that bothered me in the beginning was entering and exiting. I found I would often scrape my shin on the front of the coaming getting out. Once in the boat, it is a comfortable controllable place to be. I have a long torso,which means I stick up out of the boat a ways, a disadvantage in kayaking. I sit up straight with the back band pulled down tightly against the seat. It is more of a butt band. That is unless I am goofing off in calm conditions and slide down into the cockpit with my neck on the back of the coaming. As an aside, as you are a sports person, you probably are aware of the benefits of play, and learning how your body responds in different situations.

So, moving the seat. I have done this to a rotomolded Tempest 170 and to a composite one. It can be done without having to drill any additional holes through the deck. I moved my seat back 1", though 2" is possible. I did not notice any difference in how the boat tracked afterward. I actually ran into Steve Scherrer, the designer of the Tempest, at NW Paddlefest, and he said go for it, no problems. A thought on surfing big waves. Me, I am only an advanced novice, but I watch others having to move their weight forward and back to trim the boat on approach and descent. Sitting a bit back might change slightly how you trim. I don’t see it as a big deal.

The first time I moved the seat it took two hours, the next time one hour. The first step is to remove the seat entirely from the boat. I have included a link to a video on this. Remove all four bolts, twist the seat and then out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXnWvZiX4Z0

Getting at those lock nuts from below is the biggest challenge. You work with the boat on its side and try to think your fingers as tiny as you can make them. Here is another video of a special tool thats makes it way easier. It is cut off, closed end 10mm wrench. I added a bit of a romex wire curl with tape at the cut end to aid handing. Here is video on special tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf94YmlYpWc&list=PLEWas3LNCM2aZMIGw84CLX3jQSubtQhRJ

When you have the seat out you see that it has basically a plastic yoke that attaches under the deck each side. I believe the hole are 2" apart on center. I chose to make new holes in the yoke 1" further back, easily done as this is fairly lightweight plastic. I have heard people successfully shifting the seat back 2" by only using one bolt through the deck. There is a difference between the seat in plastic and composite boats. The plastic boats have a bullhead behind the seat that is vertical, and the seat base can move back 2" no problem. However in the composite boats the bulkhead slants forward at the base to help limit water volume entering the cockpit in a bail out. Moving the seat back 1" requires no modification to the seat base skirt. Moving 2" will require some trimming of the skirt, also not a big deal. It can be done with a razor knife.

So with the special tool and a little patience it is easily accomplished, and you get faster the second time.

#34

Wow, thank you for posting all of that. Much appreciated. I was eyeballing it and thought I could just drill another hole to move it back “1 hole”. You just confirmed that. I’m going to hold off until my ankle heals. If I just can’t make it happen, then I will move the seat. Merry Christmas.