First, now you are equating "rack failure" with "tie-down failure". Who said that's the case? To me rack failure is a problem with the rack, not the lines or straps that secure the boat. While I see no point in using every conceivable issue to shoot down the potential value of bow and stern tie-downs, seriously, if the rack is going to come off the vehicle ("rack" failure), wouldn't bow and stern tie-downs be valuable? I mean, the fact that a person hasn't noticed a weak point in their rack-to-roof connection (and such connections on many vehicles CAN'T be noticed unless you remove the headliner on the inside to take a look at what those bolts actually attach to) doesn't preclude them from knowing how to tie good knots.
That's why I said that tie-downs coming loose is a problem that's totally unrelated to the rest of this stuff. The fact that some people can't tie knots is no reason for the rest of us to not even employ tie-downs.
If you can see that something isn't useful as is, don't just discount it, think about what you want and make it happen. All you need to do to make your stern lines contribute to keeping your boat on the roof in the event of rack failure is to attach them farther forward on the boat. If the bow lines slope up and toward the rear, make the stern lines do the opposite, and slope up and toward the front. There's no reason to attach them to the tip of the boat.
In fact, with canoes, I often make the "bow lines" attach a little farther back from the bow to get more angle on the lines, and make the stern lines do the same by attaching them just a short distance behind the middle, providing a complimentary angle. That way, no matter which way the boat moves (if in fact it WERE to move, and being ready for that possibility is what we are talking about here), lines are caused to get tighter, never looser. Thus, they all contribute to doing what you want them to.
And who says you can't attach "stern lines" right behind the cockpit of a kayak? If you can tie a harness you can put the connection anywhere you want to, and that coaming comes in handy for anchoring it against rearward slippage (thus, part of the harness needs to be more forward than the point of "stern line" attachment). Now, I'm not saying this should be done, but there's no reason it can't be. Just don't say "stern lines don't do what they should" because if they don't it's your fault for putting them at the wrong spot and aligning them in the wrong orientation. I mean, if you are going attach lines in a way that's clearly not much good, it's silly to make a point of criticizing a method that was your own choice.
You make a good point In every situation and relationship there are deal breakers. I started this thread because I recently realized that no bow and stern lines is a deal breaker for me. I’m sure each of us has our deal breakers when it comes to paddling.
It depends My car is small a Honda Fit. My Thule Bars are pretty close together. When I have my 17’9" kayak on it it has bow and stern ties downs. Two up front and two in the back. Its the only real way of having the kayak securely tied down. Now a friend of mine has a large van. His bars are way apart. Bow and Stern ties downs just wouldn’t add much to his setup since the bars are so far apart. Most regular sized cars should have the bow and stern tie downs. look at it this way if something does happen and you dont have those tie downs you will get sued and iam betting lose big time in court.Aww you did’nt want to keep your house did you?
this particular report Doesn’t have to do with bow and stern tie-downs, it has to do with knucklehead loading techniques. People shouldn’t make the assumption that if they use bow and stern tie-downs, they don’t have to pay any attention to how their boat is otherwise fastened to the car.
"failure to secure load" in Michigan if you have a boat atop your vehicle, and it comes off in traffic, resulting in an accident, MI state police and many local jurisdictions will cite the driver for “failure to secure load” in addition to any other citations. They will cite if body straps come off and/or if no bow and stern tie downs are used. They don’t particularly care which is missing or about the driver’s individual theories re physics and a body in motion. If it’s missing they have the discretion and the authority to write it up.
Insurers are always looking for reasons to deny coverage, and absence of bow and stern tiedowns, or gunnel straps that come undone, makes their quest easy.
for the record, I don’t think that ppl who don’t use bow and stern tie downs are inherently evil, or lazy. I do think they may fail to see how the law or the insurers view it.
If this thread makes even a few people more cautious and careful about how they secure their boats, regardless of method, then some good has been done here. If it reaffirms for the careful ppl (regardless of method) that taking the time and care to secure a boat or boats is a good and valued thing, then some good has been done here.
Make it as safe as you can. Take your time, check it overnight or at intervals. Don’t assume, inspect. Don’t be the cause of a damaged boat, a lost one, a traffic jam, an injury or worse. Much worse.
Saw a canoe on a pickup… Truck shell with only ONE center strap and NO bow/stearn lines. I would have stopped to say something but was in my company truck and I get enough complaints as it is.
I always used bow and stern lines when I carried my 16' canoe on my SUV. But since I started carrying my 12' SOT on my car I never used bow and stern lines because I was always very careful, almost anal, about my ratchet and strap system. Also, my clip on towers have always been rock solid...don't know why everyone gives them a bad rap here.
Anyway, I think I'll start using a bow line, because, well, anything man-made can break eventually.
