Sounds Like Y’All…
pretty much knew each other, except for the one capsized paddler. Things went awry but you pulled it together before it went totally south on you. That’s good. I suspect who a couple of the paddlers were on that trip. They would comprised your “team” anyway since you paddle with them quite a bit. You all debriefed as well and this will continue to solidify the “team” for later trips.
Me… I’m just venting about something that didn’t strike me right. I appreciate folks who are direct when they have somethign to say, but I am not surprised when folks are not. However, I’m definitely more soured that a more “established” person would pull that BS and then to see it tolerated by others. I can’t see myself considering many folks in that group as potential members of my “paddling team” or me on theirs. No loss either way.
sing
Yeah, you know at least four of us…
…and probably five. There’s not too much mystery involved.
As for the incident you described, I don’t know anything about it. If you want to discuss it back channel, give me a shout.
do you think by having a leadership
role, or by making at least some sort of a statement before launching about what the expectations were for the trip that the situation might have been handled slightly better?
Sticking together?
I was speed reeding the whole thread so I may have missed it being covered, but don’t you think it makes sense to try to get groups like this to stick together better. If folks can’t see the other paddlers in your group and check on them when paddling in the winter then why bother going as a group? Sure some people paddle faster than others but with a group it means they need to slow down.
Towing was not the best option.
1. Sudden weakening of your friend for reasons unknown. The first things to consider are heart attack and stroke.
2. EMS was available and could have reached you much sooner than you reaching them. Time is critical.
3. If your friend’s condition worsened, like his heart stopped beating… there would be nothing you, the EMT or the nurse practicioner could have done while sitting in a kayak.
4.Letting your friend get into a car and drive home after this?
I know I am armchair quarterbacking but as I read the thread it is obvious to me, as an RN that your friend needed prompt evacuation to an Emergency Room for a medical evaluation. That did not happen.
yeppers
I have been doing some leadership EDU stuff lately with some locals and we have been going over what is ‘official’ about /every/ trip we do. many would call us extremely anal. and yes, we are. 
nobody likes to get caught with their pants down.
=:-0)
steve
btwb ~ I’m scheduled for Kittery! whoo Hoo. where we goin’?
2 things make me think here
1) I would think a paddler would not just get weak and not be able to stay upright could have had a serious medical problem. Unless someone in the group was a Dr. I think a call to the CG would have been appropite and maybe life saver.
2) I have stated it, before if you are in a group paddle then it should be a group paddle not groups paddling. There is saftey in numbers. I have been in a group that was way slower than me and I took that time to work on bracing and sweep strokes and backwards paddling and just chatting it is a paddle not a race.
Brian, was vertigo considered?
A 1-3’ swell at the right frequency could make someone ill who normally tolerates larger stuff. Was the paddler clammy and nauseous?
Quite possibly
It’s too easy to be informal to the point of having no structure when you’re going out with friends. That’s exactly what happened on this trip. I don’t think a full-fledged beach brief like you would do when leading strangers on a trip is in order, but it makes sense to have a basic understanding of the protocol on the water and what to do in the case of an emergency.
Absolutely
If we had stuck together, there would have been no problems. That’s one of the lessons of this trip.
We would have called for help…
…if we felt that it was a critical situation. He was exhibiting no other signs of either stroke or coronary problems. Where we were located, it was pretty unlikely that assistance would have reached us before we reached shore. The other concern was that we were drifting out to sea with the tide, at a pretty good clip. Staying put would have resulted in more drift and everyone in the group getting chilled.
We made a judgement call based on the situation as we saw it at the time. Although it turned out to be the right one, as you point out, it could easily have gone the other way. You’re also right that if we had to deal with a cardiac arrest or stroke, there is essentially nothing we could have done on the water.
It will be interesting to hear what his doctor has to say.
No, he was fine other than being weak
He had no dizziness or nausea. He was warm, comfortable and lucid. We were looking at a solid horizon, which pretty much prevents seasickness. The only pain he had was cramps in his hips. It’s pretty baffling.
Your post is working!
Way to go! Posts like this one are really a great way to open our imaginations, makes learning interesting and like simulations during my WFR training, get us to learn the principles behind how to apply this stuff in real conditions, rather than memorizing facts that you either lose or cannot apply in the moment. Keep posting things like this all.
gut instinct
from another RN is dehydration and electroyte imbalance. This can be totally (and temporarily) debilitating, and can happen when dressed for immersion (and overdressed for exertion). Just dragging your boat and gear to the put in can cost a few pounds of salt. Drinking some Gatorade, or something like it, before you launch is the trick.
If your friend comes back with a clean bill of health, that might have been the cause of his symptoms.
Lyn
I’m as puzzled,
and as curious, as all the other medical people here about what might have happened to the stricken paddler.
One possibility is hypERthermia. It happened to me once, after my nervous father-in-law convinced me to wear an additional layer of fleece under my drysuit for a winter paddle. I was a bit late to get to work, and so was rushing back from Boston Light to Quincy, not taking the time to roll to cool down. I got very suddenly weak and uncomfortable, but really didn’t feel hot. It took me a while to realize that all I wanted to do was rip my neoprene hood off. I did so, then rolled a few times, and my strength returned quickly. It was scary how paralyzed I felt when it happened.
I’m hoping you get some news from the paddler so our curiosity can be satiated!
Thanks for the very interesting report,
Sanjay
lessons learned
Outstanding reporting of the events and the results.
And the follow-ups from everyone were totally enlightening as well. As noted by others, my biggest fear on water with groups IS heart or stroke problems since there is extreme difficulty in a kayak providing the kind of treatment necessary to limit damage. One thing we’ve done in towing is to use multiple tow lines “train style”, in-line as it forces all to stay together and provides extra horse power. But NEVER leave the one being towed alone at the end of the train. This will not work well in rough waters but has proven to be a good bet for good conditions. I hope you submit to Sea Kayaker and I hope your fellow paddler finds the cause of his sudden illness.
Thanks Brian
I hope all turns out well. I want to point out it is the subtle signs such as sudden weakness, bloating, nausea of heart attacks that are deadly; they tend to get overlooked until it is too late. About a year ago, a friend was paddling with a group (I was not there) had symptoms like your friend and some nausea. He actually paddled on his own, not feeling well. One of his friends persuaded him to go to the ER where he was dignosed with heart attack. Funny thing was there was an ER nurse paddling with that group and she did not pick up on it.
Great Thread Brian and All
Lots to think about and learn from here, folks thanks.
“Experienced” paddlers paddling all the way out of sight when aware of a safety problem in the “group” doesn’t make any sense at all to me.
Thanks to those who shed some light on how that could have happened.
This thread really hammers home the need for safety training, leadership and communication.
thanks
for the informative post. great material for other paddlers to consider. looks like all the training and whatnot you’ve done over the last three or four years really paid off. i’d be honored to paddle with you and the core group that pulled out what was essentially a double-rescue, although i don’t think i’d take my Rob Roy in those waters.