WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR PUMP??????

When Everyone Carries

– Last Updated: Dec-12-05 10:28 AM EST –

their own pump and are self sufficient with their own equipment, you don't need to access your pump to empty someone's boat. If someone else goes over, then they need to get hold of their own pump. If there is another person to help with an assisted rescue, the T rescue should have drained most of the water already by flipping the kayak. If done well, not much water should be left behind to warrant the pump. Whether one even needs to drain the bit left is debatable. If things are really going off, get in that boat ASAP and seal the skirt.

sing

Skin On Frame

Different Requirement…
Don’t go out in a low volume SOF in conditions unless you are convinced that you have a bombproof roll and have tested this under trying conditions. Pool rolls don’t count.



sing

Pumping someone else’s cockpit?
Sing wrote…


you don’t need to access your pump to empty someone’s boat…

the T rescue should have drained most of the

water already by flipping the kayak.



There are many techniques and plausible situations where the cockpit will be flooded after the rescue – scoop, reenter-and-roll, hand of god, etc.



In these cases, you can sometimes redo the rescue as a T at a bit more leisure to empty the cockpit, but not always. So, you not only may need to pump water from the cockpit, but it could be a lot of water. In that case, one or two additional rafted pumpers can really help. In the case of righting a really disabled or even unconscious paddler using hand-of-god, you are definitely going to be pumping someone else’s boat.



So, I must respectfully disagree with Sing. Pumping someone else’s boat is quite plausible, and we should be prepared for it.



–David.


Corrected…
Yes. Agree with an incapacitated paddler. Then you better have more than one rescuer on hand and then VHF to call in the coasties ‘cause you ain’t getting that person back to shore in any kind of conditons where you need simultaneous, multiple pumps going…



Re-enter and roll, don’t do that unless one’s alone since that’s more reliable than paddle float rescue. The T rescue drains in better and faster. Saw K. Cooper do that for someone in 4’ break zone. Fast and impressive.



sing

My pump
fits just right bewteen the seat bracket and the side, on the Eskia. When I’m paddling my Eddyline it’s bungied on the front deck for easy access.

Paddle Pirate
Out of curiosity, when you are in your cockpit can you reach a pump stored between the seat hanger and the hull? I cannot, but I’m a big guy and fill most of the cockpit.



Jim

Yes,
it fits real nicely in that area, not too snug where you have to yank it out with the jaws of life and not too loose where it’ll float out by itself. Things on the deck make me nervous. The Eskia is really roomy for me, but I just can’t seem to let it go. It’s the perfect boat to bring new folks out paddling. Very stable.

SOF
SOF means skin on frame.

Pump between seat and hull
I keep mine between the seat and hull of my Arctic Tern 14, Fits greatt and is easily accessed. To prevent loss I have a laynard attached to it and a tiedown that I installed. As others have noted, you do have to access the cockpit to get at it.

A word on storing paddle floats
I have seen people get into trouble because a wave caught their paddlefloat, stripped it from the deck and acted as a drogue at the very time they needed everything they could get out of their boat and blade. Once, this happened to 2 people in our group within 20 minutes of each other.



First, when in a group do you really need the PF on deck to be used so quickly? What, are you going to do a self rescue on yourself while we all wait on you? The chances are of it creating more trouble for you on deck than below.



Wayne Horodowitch’s ABC’s of the surf zone has a good method for securing it to the front bungies for those of you who must. I’ve kept it there and done repeated surf launch and landings with little or no problem but still find no reason it should be up there to begin with. Be advised they can and do come off, not every one is Wayne Horodowitch, when they come off it may initiate a series of problems that will be unwelcome to you. Roll or die? I like more options than that. And one of them is not to have to roll with a water filled bag tethered to a 3-4 foot section of shockcord clipped to my deckline. No thankyou.



Augustus Dogmatycus

MMV

Re Roll or die
Is there no way to put flotation in a Skin on Frame Boat? What about a Sea Sock (I think that’s what they are called)?

Didn’t Mean To Divert Thread…
I agree with Aug Dog above.





SOF- yes floatation bags. But if the design is low volume, doesn’t make much difference except will draining the boat on shore. Just something low volume SOF users have to accept as part of the package.



sing

I’m surprised we got this far
without a slight, but still relevant, diversion.! ; ) Sea socks will prevent flooding of the yak as it is something that is sat in. Use 'em all the time in my folder. When I build my Aleutian I’ll make the volume low, but still high enough to keep the cockpit rim above water with a few gallons in the sock.



The pump, when used in boats that require a sock, unfortunately have to go on deck as there isn’t really a place in the sock. I usually put them both on my reardeck and am forced to bite my tongue. My body protects them through waves going out but still subjects pump and float to washing off coming in. Wrapping the float bag around the shaft of the pump makes the pump bulkier but my pump is tethered and holds on pretty well. Ideally, I only want chart, compass and extra paddle up top, but my folder isn’t equipped with a day hatch or bulkheads so I have to compromise. Having boats of wildly different construction and design parameters forces one to think about the variables not just in boat but in technique. Sing made a good point a few notes above and it brought to mind my own struggle with technique in switching from one to the other boat and how they are provisioned.



Augustus Dogmatycus

MMV

Haven’t you heard?
SOT’s have made pumps obsolete…LOL…sorry just couldn’t resist.

Not Too Far Fetched…

– Last Updated: Dec-12-05 5:00 PM EST –

in warmer climes. A surf ski may be the ticket for certain day paddlers. (Inserted) Also, maybe something like the Heritage Shearwater (discontinued) but with an narrower beam would be a good starting point, before a surf ski.

Yesterday, surfed with a buddy in his waveski in 3-5' waves with 6-7 second intervals. Kind of ugly conditions for a short waveski. But there is something to be said about the simplicty of it for someone who is practiced. He mostly rolled when needed. The few times he needed to unbuckle, he was able to quickly scamble back on and snapped on the seat belt on in between waves. No worry about pumps, paddle floation bags, etc...

sing

WHAT KIND OF KAYAK DO YOU HAVE?
I put mine under the foredeck. If I couldn’t put it there it would have to have it’s own lashing/bungie on the aft deck or I’d do without.

only if you’re VERY SKINNY

– Last Updated: Dec-12-05 5:09 PM EST –

I can't imagine getting a pump out from between the seat and side of hull (if it's wide enough) while in the kayak. Maybe strapped down under the seat and along the keel. There should be enough room to jam the pump right up to your,,middle of the seat.

Meridian
and he is shopping for a longer boat (on another thread). His next boat is preferred in a Brit design. So, perhaps, order with built in foot or chimp pump (which he is also exploring on another thread).



All this discussion can be taken FWIW by whomever else. :slight_smile:



sing


cut a hole in the back of the plastic

– Last Updated: Dec-12-05 5:16 PM EST –

"knee tube" and your pump should fit all the way through. That's what I did for a friends Meridian,,the formed plastic can be drilled out and the rough edges smoothed with a rasp. Put in another bungie to hold it in with a 2' tether tied to the pump and clipped to the bungie.
You can also use the space on either side of the "knee tube" to attach bungies to the underside of the foredeck rigging to attach other gear.