Silhouette is sweet…
It’s fast, an incredible roller, and fairly manueverable for it’s length. It surfs great as well.
I’ve had a Betsie Bay and I spent plenty of time in many Impex boats. While they are all nice kayaks, for my money, the best kayak for me (at 5’8" 145lbs) are the Silhouette and the Nordkaap LV.
Nordy LV
I don’t think the Nordkapp LV was meant to be a day boat for very small paddlers given it’s ideal mid weight of 180lbs. Rather a Nordkapp to be enjoyed by the average size paddler without the necesity to carry a full load of gear. The Naut LV is a smaller boat and lower weight range.
You have your Anas, Rumors, Sukas, Avocets and Slipstreams, now let us have some fun…
BTW… I’m loving mine, little review next week…
Meant to say “not intended”?
Assuming hulls work best or perform as designed/intended when at their designed waterline or displacement and with the center of mass at a certain point, is the difference all that noticeable to the average paddler? Or is the range of acceptable displacement big enough to cover most misfits between paddler and boat? And perhaps the hull is not working as intended, but is working as the paddler likes? Perhaps the average paddler would not like way the hull was intended to work? Perhaps some modifications such as lowering the seat are done to change the performance to a something a paddler can like or deal with. Some say a boat is lively and some say the same boat is tricky or demanding. Is it the boat? Is it the paddler? Is it the boat/paddler combination? Seems a quagmire to me.
Thomasson Design
That’s another great one. There is beginning to be a bit of interest in his boat designs here in the US.
One guy I know is currently building a Black Pearl (That I can’t wait to try next time I paddle with him). And the Isfjord I think would be serious competitor with the NDK Explorer if it were commercially built in composite. He’s got some really cool looking boats.
Wayne
In THIS Area
The 170s were in the shop quite a while before the 165s.
LV/HV
it’s a way to get more models from one mold. If a hull really was low volume it would be for carrying less weight. If a hull really was for high volume it would be for carrying more weight.
Making the freeboard at the deck/hull seam higher and lower really doesn’t address the issue of the the appropiate hull shape for a particular load.
I’d much rather have a kayak be 1" wider with a rounded bottom for carrying more weight than a kayak that’s 1" taller sitting 3/4" deeper in the water for more weight when that hull really wasn’t designed for carrying more weight.
YEAH!
Let’s get those prices down too!
You guys are living too high.
For anyone interested…
here is a link to the build of my Black Pearl. 18feet 6inch x 19inch x 8.5inch front deck x 5inch rear deck. I am 6feet 2inches x 192lbs - so for me, this is as low volume as I will go. (thats what I said when I got my last boat, though!)
LV in my case simply is a state of mind until my legs fall asleep…and yes, Wayne…you are welcome to paddle it whenver you like.
http://clearstreamwood.com/WordPress/
Scott
Kayak fit
I fully appreciate your comments. In our defence i would add that the Valley cockpit has very pronounced keyhole’ing, meaning even though the cockpit is long the thigh area i accessible even to shorter legs. Of our LV boats the Aquqnaut has the snuggest cockpit area, then the Avocet, then the Nordkapp.
As someone else noted the Nordkapp LV is not especially low volume. The intension being that it made a performance day boat/weekend boat for the most paddler and a full on expedition (Nordkapp) style boat, for lighter folks. As for weight capacities, these are always only a guide the band of weights we recommend for the Nordkapp LV is between approx 125-30lbs and 225-30lbs with a mean of approx 180lbs. Although it is probably at its absolute best in the 140-210lbs range. The full size Nordkapp doesn’t really start working until in the 200lbs plus range.
In an ideal world we would offer a greater range of cockpit sizes and this is something we are investigating. The problem is the range of paddler shapes we are trying to accommodate for example, I am a 6ft male weighing 200lbs, for my height I have long legs but can get in all of kayak including the Aqua LV easily. Equally l have had people of 140lbs (an ideal weight for the Aqua LV) tell me it is to tight and they don’t see how “normal people” can fit in.
Although I think most manufacturers are making advances in outfitting the number one kayak selection criteria, after the suitability of the design for what you wish to do, is does the kayak fit me/do I feel comfortable in here
Thanks
Hey Scott, Was terrific to see your site. Quick question: Did you use an InterNet-based Swedish to English translation of Bjorn’s building manual? Best, John
Seems Like
The design of the part of the hull that is under the water is likely the most important part of the hull in terms of the boats ability to go through the water and it that works you dont want to change that. That said, as you reduce the volume of the boat elsewhere you may reduce the weight of the boat and that will change the amount of water that the hull displaces and the wetted surface will change.
I think the two main reasons to move towards lower volume are better paddler fit and to reduce windage.
I would like to see how my boat would handle if about two inches were taken out of its freeboard. That would reduce the windage significantly which Id view as a major plus.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
Appreciate the response
I appreciate your reply re the cockpit sizing, and in the end I think the rub is still women v. men when you get to cockpit fit. I have seen women three inches shorter than me, and somewhat heavier, find decent control in the Explorer LV cockpit as well a woman 4 inches taller than myself. Granted the latter didn’t have bicyclist’s thighs, and at my average size a wet re-entry takes more planning than in a higher decked boat. But that is a pretty large range in height. However, all women so the general flexibility level was probably better than a similarly ranged group of males.
I have had also had some guys who were a lot beefier than me get into the Vela fine, but the foredeck is a good bit higher than in the LV.
The combination is not just length, but the upward reach required to have good contact. So some may find that a Rumour, with virtually no thigh brace to start with, is easier to pad to an appropriate position than an Avocet because it provides a less froggy leg position.
And finally hip width - often overlooked. While women may have pound for pound wider hips than guys, an average sized woman often has the same or smaller width than an average size guy. So the boat for the “small paddler” on traditional measures still has a woman splayed out more widely than provides for a comfortable and relaxed fit over a long paddle. In fact that is my problem with the Avocet - despite the volume issue the boat handles very comfortably for me. But the Romany would be a better full-cockpit size 16’ boat for me (had I not the Vela) because there are affirmative thigh braces cut in enough that I don’t have to be in a yoga position in conditions.
Again, thanks for your comments. I do think that, among the newer boats, the Force 3 has the most interesting combination of leaving good foredeck height, in fact a bit more than I prefer these days, while setting up a good quality of contact in how they ran the thigh braces back.
'Valley…has very pronounced keyhole’in
– Last Updated: Dec-10-06 10:41 AM EST –
Peter,
Have you ever sat in an NDK boat? The Romany and Explorer have much more pronounced keyholing than any composite Valley boat.
I love Valley boats. I am a advocate for the Aquanaut and would like to have a Nordkapp LV. However I wish I could get the NDK keyhole in these boats.
I am 6', 170 pounds and find the thigh contact in my Aquanaut wanting compared to my Romany. Though higher decked, even my friends' Explorers provide more thigh contact.
I also think some of the solutions you explored regarding coaming size and seat positioning options while at P&H are worthy of consideration with Valley.
1/2 the solution
Valley does the right thing in reducing the volume of their hulls and height of their decks for their LVs. Unfortunately they use the same size coaming in all their keyholed boats.
NDK lowers the decks and reduces the area of the coaming for their LVs thus providing better contact for smaller paddlers but leaves too much volume in the hulls.
Each has done half the job.
I can somewhat understand Valley using the full size coaming for their touring LVs. The Nordkapp LV feels the right size for me to paddle unladen - to use as a day boat. If its coaming were the size of a Vela or Explorer LV I would have difficulty getting in and out with my shins intact.
However, the coaming is too big for a small male or average size female to use as an expedition boat and get decent contact.
Valley is trying to appeal to two different size paddlers. The result in another boat that fits folks my size - 6’.
Minicel
Easier to make a boat smaller than larger.
No boat will fit perfect…
LV boats
The first manufacturer to do this was P & H with the Serius. The LV and Middle versions were the same hull with lowered decks. The higher volume one was a slightly wider hull and more freeboard.
When a manufacturer is on the beach with their boats and a prospective customer comes back and says, “I love it, it just to big for me” . It doesn’t take them long to figure out what they have to do.
All Frank Goodman (Valley) and Derek Hutchinson (P & H and more) designs had to fit them and they were big guys and like to carry stuff (expeditions). Nigel Foster is skinny and likes his larger volume boats best (he told me).
Only so much…
– Last Updated: Dec-11-06 9:47 AM EST –
Minicel only accomplishes so much. Indeed I have an inch of minicell under the deck/flanges of both my Aquanaut and Romany. I've also got the 'naut's seat set to as be sitting about an inch forward of stock position in order to improve thigh contact. It is still not great.
Island Qaarsut, Newt, etc…
– Last Updated: Dec-14-06 11:00 AM EST –
Some LVs worth considering:
http://www.seakayakingusa.com/islandkayaks.htm
http://www.seakayakgeorgia.com/island_kayak.htm
http://www.islandkayaks.net/IKProductsNewt.htm