Haven’t paddled either of those…
…but came across them in my shopping for used boats. The photo of the Tripper is a bit misleading for royalex anyway, I think (pictures lie - shutterbugs know this). Can’t remember who, but there are at least a couple here at p.net that have used one for poling and reported that it does well. Couldn’t be that bad - but for above cl.2? I dunno…
The Appy looks to me to be very much like a Prospector. If big flatwater tripping weren’t on the list, I think it would be a good choice for up to cl3.
Really does sound like a need for three boats. One Northwind(ish), one Prospecter(ish) and one whitewater solo.
here’s the beast ye be seeking…
– Last Updated: Dec-03-09 1:56 AM EST –
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442324815&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302700641
the ultimate big water canoe for rivers. a category of one, the Evergreen Starburst, fully outfittted by Mike Yee. fill your boots.
Second Hand Old Town Tripper Experience
The Old Town Tripper was the whitewater playboat of choice, tandem or solo, back when Royalex was new and Grummans were common on the rivers.
I’ve seen them run nicely in technical class III (Farmington River Sandisfield, Ma), big wave class III (Dead River, West Forks, Me) and lower. I’ve heard tales of them doing well in class IV (Gilsum Gorge, Ashuelot River, Gilsum, NH no I didn’t see that one!).
As always it’s the boater as much or more than the boat but The Tripper is one that I’d consider for the OPs request… so long as there are no portages involved. I can tell you first hand those things weigh a TON!
If the OP is running moving water exclusively perhaps a Dagger Dimension would be worth consideration. That’s the biggest playboat I’ve seen.
Making photos lie about rocker…
…requires something more tricky than a straight-from-the-side shot (the shot which shows the feature I mentioned). Old Town even states that the stems have a “deep” V design, and the photo shows what “deep” actually means in this case. I don’t doubt that people have used them in whitewater, but I really think the OP wants a boat with rocker, rather than something with the opposite of rocker. Stems that dig deep are “grabby”.
Yeah, I wish MR would put the Dagger
Dimension back into production. They are slow cruisers, but they are dry and more maneuverable than my (erstwhile) Tripper or than the obsolescent MR Explorer.
guideboatguy, our Tripper was quick
– Last Updated: Dec-03-09 2:21 PM EST –
turning both solo and tandem in whitewater. I watched Payson Kennedy and various partners place high in whitewater slalom in Trippers.
The Tripper does, admittedly, look like a camel, designed by a committee. But the center flattish section is a wonderful pivot, and the ends don't impede turning. The Tripper was also a favorite poling boat, except for its swing weight. A light composite Tripper would be a great boat to own.
Oh, and the seats are quite high, and I never had trouble kneeling under them with my size 15 feet.
Reading your post again, I wonder if the photos you are perusing show the actual shape of the hull. I haven't seen a Tripper at boat inspection where the ends droop below the center. Admittedly, Trippers used in WW often have foam pedestals stuffed between the center thwart and the bottom, which fractionally increases the rocker and improves the pivot section. But I doubt that a new, stock Tripper would hog in the center.
I checked that OT Tripper photo you’re
referring to, and that you see is an artifact of the camera angle. The camera was not as low as it should be to catch the true contour of the Tripper bottom. Instead, one side of the bilge obscures the true contour. The ends are not lower than the center, they are distinctly raised.
Rocker “numbers” are OK but one also has to take into account the shape of the ends (the Tripper’s ends don’t hinder turning much) and the shape and size of the boat center. The Tripper is 37" in beam, has a flattish shallow arch bottom of substantial size, soft chines, and so if not loaded very heavily, the center keeps the ends “soft” in the water and helps the boat turn.
I seldom see company photos that are taken from the right angle to show us what we want to see. Even canoe magazine reviewers usually provide bad-angle photos.
See my posts below.
A video I’d pay to watch/own…
– Last Updated: Dec-03-09 3:11 PM EST –
2 "intermediate" paddlers,in a tandem canoe, loaded with expedition gear, and whatever floatation they can get into the canoe, after they load their gear.
Put em in at the top of Chattooga Section 3, and let em run it, and all of Chattooga Section 4.
Follow that up with Watauga Gorge top to bottom.
Then drive over to the Gauley & run "every" class 4.
Now that's an expedition.
Have 3 or 4 good cameramen; catching all the fun/capsizes/boat retrievals from different angles.
Sure it can be done.........
Show me!
Fun to watch, and educational too.
(Intermediate paddlers "NOT" experts).
I'd pay 35 bucks for a full length copy of that video.
Less than a hundred copies sold would probably pay for all expenses. After that it's all gravy; as long as you stay out of the hospital, or funeral home.
:^)
BOB
Tripper be very manuverabool
– Last Updated: Dec-03-09 3:01 PM EST –
If yer look at dis dauggertype of de second canoo fro' de left on de bottom tier - dat be me Tripper.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2124663870094647494HUrqSq
Ye will (kind'a) see de end profile of dis boat. Ah' been paddlin' dis here Tripper fer pert-near 31 years now an' fer a big expedition canoo it be highly manuverable. Empty ah' kin spin it on a dime an' loaded it still toyns very well.
FE
Teamed with a big backferry, I’m
sure you can do it!
I’m sure you could do it…
I think it would take “a little more” than a strong back ferry…
I would be happy to do a lengthy road trip, to be able to watch the action in person.
I’d even offer whatever assistance I might be able to provide with a throw bag and Z drag.
Need a couple of gung ho, intermediate, tandem canoe paddling, volunteers.
:^)
BOB
Note that one has to consider depth
at the center, and rocker, and beam, together. A canoe that is 15" deep at the center sounds like it would be dry, but if high rocker has the ends out of the water, and low width sinks the center deeper, then freeboard goes by the board.
My 15’ MR Synergy is 15" deep, but only 28.5" wide, and has lotsa rocker. Result is that the boat is not as dry as that depth figure might lead you to expect.
Our Bluewater Chippewa is just short of 17’ long, 16" deep, and 35" wide. It will be dryer on a lake than the Esquif Canyon, and dryer in whitewater if handled carefully. But while it has some deadrise rocker, it is not as maneuverable in whitewater.
Hull shape, lenght, rocker, width, depth… You need to consider all together to predict how much carrying capacity a boat has in whitewater. The Canyon is good. The OT Tripper and the Dagger Dimension are better.
and what do ya think of the …
… Appalachian now F.E. ??
You got both the Appy and the Tripper , and that tells me alot …
Models
With almost no commentary, here are my suggestions. All are good, but for different priorities.
Novacraft Prospector 17’ SP3 Poly - tough, cheap, best value in a tripping boat imo if weight doesn’t matter to you
Hellman Slocan or Clipper Prospector 17 duraflex - tough, lighter, more responsive (Ostrom in Thunder Bay has a used Clipper)
Bell Alaskan, Dagger Venture 17, Wenonah Spirit II Rx - tough, lighter than poly, easy to paddle
Starburst/Canyon/Appalachian, and also Dumoine - dry, good for moving water
Souris River Canoe Skeena - quite light, pricey
Trailhead Prospector 17’ Royalex - most stable and dry big tripping canoe I’ve yet tried.
Every canoe is a compromise.
Could be
I would have expected more than just a trace of the backside gunwale to be visible in that case, and more than just along a tiny portion of just one end of the boat, but I wouldn’t rule out your conclusion as being the right one. It certainly seems possible.
Agree w/ Fatelmo about Tripper
We’ve been paddling our Tripper for 32 years:
http://picasaweb.google.com/canoeleaf/TripperPhotos?authkey=Gv1sRgCL_cj5TIweXXmQE#
In the Middle Fork Salmon and Missouri photos, there’s a week’s worth of camping gear in the canoe.
OT Tripper
The Tripper is certainly capable in CII. We took them loaded through Big Rapid and Big Bear Rapid on Maine’s St. John, which are called CIII. The only time I tried to take it unloaded, tandem through the Potomac’s Little Falls Rapid, a solid CIII we flipped it, but I flip there sometime in my ww boat, too. The flipping was definitely a skill issue.
And as for OT aiming it at the Disco market, you are right, but it was the other way around. The Discovery is the Tripper hull in cross-link, only they had to shorten it because of the weight of that material.
The stems do hang down a bit, but the mid section of the canoe is bulbous. Lean the Tripper over on those bulby sides, and you pull the stems up, and the boat is very maneveurable.
I would not suggest it for the OP because of the weight (80 lbs) and for higher class water I’d want a more ww-oriented design. Dagger Legend and Esquif Prospector in 17’ come to mind.
~~Chip
MF Salmon!
I’d like to hear more about that trip! Maybe in the “Places to Paddle” section?