Which way do you re-enter and roll?

Great point…
Maybe I will just stick with going in sideways.





matt

Anything Is Possible
but I think to have big waves breaking out in open water, you would have to be out in some very SERIOUS conditions. Frankly, my thinking is that if you don’t have a bombproof roll and good endurance, you shouldn’t be out there in the first place.



Even on break breaking surf days, usually when you get past the break zone, what you’ll find is big undulating swells/waves. You’ll rise up and down with these, not get smashed. What would mess you up more out there is wind which will take boat or paddle if you let either go.



sing

Rolling Videos?
Can anyone out there recommend any videos that teach rolling? Since you can’t preview them, I have no idea which are best.



The ones that are mentioned the most are Kent Ford’s “The Kayak Roll”, which apparently is mostly whitewater w/some sea kayaking.



Also recommended to me has been Eric Jackson’s “Rolling and Bracing” though it is for whitewater only.



Will videos that focus on ww rolling still be helpful for rolling a sea kayak?



Thanks.

A roll is a roll
I own, and recommend, “The Kayak Roll.” I got it after I had learned to roll (but it was still shaky), and this video helped me improve it. Though they do most but not all of the demos with WW kayaks, the modified sweep roll they teach works on both WW and sea kayaks. They even have footage of a couple rolling up a double sea kayak.



I don’t own the other video you mention but have seen lots of good comments about it here.

Top 3 IMO
In no particular order:



“Kayak Roll”

“1st Roll”

“EJ’s Rolling and Bracing”



Where these overlap is where the focus needs to be.



EJ’s roll is different ( modified C to C), but effective. His teaching methods are what makes it worth the $.



The other two are almost the same roll (extended paddle sweep roll), but with a different finish position - and taught in reverse order. “Kayak Roll” breaks things down well. “1st Roll” method is great for solo practice and dedicated to sea kayaks. Very useful to see both.



Trying to pick one as best - or for someone who only wants one is tough. To me the comparison and variety of instruction with all three is better as it can keep you from getting too caught up in details and lets you see the overall mechanics that work.

Thanks For The Timely Post
My buddy and I went to the local lake for roll and paddle float re-entry practice yesterday. Couldn’t quite get the ‘re-enter and roll’. Next weekend I’ll be more prepared. Thanks again.

Foot pump safety factor here
Thanks for reminding us of this variation as well as the one that allows for the skirt to be placed on and then roll up. Still significant water enters and destabilizes the boat upon roll up. This is an increasing concern in very rough waters as one may be doing more than one wet rentry!



Not to side track this post, but that is why I have a foot pump in my boat. It empties water at 10-15 gallons per minute all while keeping both hands on the paddle. For solo paddling this can be a big increase in safety.

Not the extended paddle
"The Kayak Roll" teaches using the regular paddle position, not extended.

Boat Fit Matters…
I could wet re-enter just about any old way in my Squall, footpegs and a high front deck with lots of room to the side and fore. Though I rather preferred to somersault because it felt neat.

Getting back into the LV, much lower deck, feet against bulkhead blocks, is a much more careful feat. Both ways work, but I’d guess in conditions the somersault would be faster because it is a more immediately secure grip on the coaming and a faster way to get my butt securely locked against the seat. Just a guess though - I haven’t ever tried this in more than a couple of feet of dimension.



There doesn’t seem, to me anyway, to be a single best way. There are probably better ways to wet re-enter given certain combinations of conditions and boat fit.

Yeah, good catch.
Haven’t watched it for a while. I tend to see the overall and similarities between them more than the differences. The overlap with the three I mentioned is that two teach a sweep roll, and two a layback finish, but not the same two.

My experience with this…
I tried the somersault method a couple times over the past few weeks and I have to admit failure ever time. I must be doing something wrong. Each time, I found that my PFD’s flotation inhibited me from doing a somersault in the water. I could see how this would work well without a PFD but does anyone have any similar experiences or tips in regards to this?

Grab the coaming?
If I think about it, a more accurate description would probably be that I grab both sides of the coaming the coaming and pull myself under the boat somewhat loosely loosely upside down, then tuck and do the somersault thing. Can’t say that the flotation on the PFD has ever been a problem, but I’ve heard from some guys that the bulk of it took up some precious space that blocked their ability to tuck up. I know I am a good bit more limber than some of them, so I can probably curl up in a tighter space than some bigger people.

but when I do that…
it lifts the kayak up on an angle due to the fact that I am somersaulting partially out of the water. I thought this reentry was preferable due to less water entering the cockpit but if the kayak lifts, I would think that the water it took on would be the sames as the sideways method. To clarify the way I do the sideways method, I don’t actually tilt the kayak sideways but actually grab the combing and enter the kayak from the side underwater.

Experiment shows how it works
A paddle buddy of mine actually measured how much water gets in with various methods quantitatively. Surprisingly the same amount gets in regardless of which method one uses to get into the boat.



Even more surprising is that approximately the same amount of water is left in the cockpit if one does NOT put on the skirt first underwater or NOT. The reason being is that a sizeable amount of water spills out as one comes up out of the water without the skirt on and nothing spills out with the skirt on.



HIs conclusion is that therefore there is more advantage to leaving the skirt off in calmer conditions at least as the extra time putting the skirt on reduces ones chances of a successful roll up and it not worth this extra risk. In big seas it may still be better to put the skirt on underwater so pumping out on roll up is facilitated if that is crucial to not having another knock down.



Food for thought at least

Belated Thanks!
Thanks for all your tips.

R

Angle
I am straight upside down under the boat when I start flipping over and into it, not off to any side. It’d be impossible for me to lift just one side of the boat in that position, so must be a different one than you.



I suspect the difference is in what I mentioned, the thickness of the PFD making it impossible for you to fully tuck up as tight as I can. Like I said, I am fairly limber - most guys who have coached me have commented on it.

Do not get sideways at all
Start the re-entry by “standing” under the inverted kayak, letting the PFD keep your head nicely above water and breathing in the air space of the cockpit. You should be facing the rear of the coaming, with each hand holding the sides of the coaming.



Grab a deep breath, tuck your legs up to your chest, and then somersault backwards quickly. You WILL have to push your head down against the PFD’s flotation but it’s not bad. Once you have pivoted past that point, the PFD seems to actually pop your body into the right position in the cockpit. At least, it did for me. I suspect, that lying flat on your back too long (instead of quickly putting yourself upside down) makes the resistant worse, so don’t dawdle in your somersaulting. The moment of resistant is very brief.