Looseness is a term thrown around to refer to the ease of which a boat releases from the water. This is most notable while surfing on a wave or in a hole. A loose boat will more easily begin planing on the water when surfing and when flatspinning the boat will not have a tendancy to stick to the water. When surfing a planing hull boat, it is like you are paddling on ball bearings as it is a really great slippery feeling as the kayak moves and spins almost independant of the grip of the water. It's pretty apparent when flat spinning various boats how loose a particular boat is on a particular feature. Some boats actively require strong strokes to spin while others you can just sit there and engage alternate edges without a single paddle stroke to spin (clean spins).
Recommend you paddle with, and think in, loose associations. Like the Harveysburg Paddling Club. A looser association can’t be found outside the writings of madmen.
Your question only scratches the surface. Go to Asheville, NC (closest ww kayaking mecca to your neck of the woods) and on any Thurs. eve. just listen to the conversations in any of the local pubs. The effects of water, gravity, aeration, geology, lumber, alcohol consumption, patched equipment and general surfer-eze becomes an entirely new melange of words describing just how to run a line (devolving into the speech now) hazzards to avoid, or the best war stories of kayaking carnage using adjectives/verbs like maytagged, chundered, worked, gnarly, circ-ed, donkey flip, blunts, peel outs, split-wheel and on and on and on and on.
Just to get a taste go to boatertalk.com or npmb.com to get a sampling without travelling to Asheville, Boulder, Stowe, etc. Also a little less smokey in front of your screen as compared to the pubs.
my son used a new term a couple of weeks ago. “STOP!!!”. I burst out laughing, then thanked the kevlar strips on my canoe. We use “left”, “right” “rock” “sh##”, and will never use “stop” again. We “peeled out” yesterday, with a canoe no less. Also “messed up” though not seriously lauching off the side of a rock. My ww canoe has a fair amount of “rocker” and a good deal of “flare”, allowing it to change direction easily and keep my son somewhat dry.
Thanks, sing Glad you answered. I was thinking you would probably know about this stuff. Another question about CFS, can the same river vary between having high or low CFS depending on water level, recent rains, etc.? If I understand the concept, that would be true. If not, I need more clarification.
Dr. Disco Some of those are under 7’ in length. Would they have too much bounciness (or other characteristics) that would not be good for a novice ww paddler?
I like the look of the Riot Boosters. The Cross River looks interesting but might be too short for what I want. Not that I’m buying anytime soon, but I’d like to make up a “test paddle” list - there are some demo days happening around here pretty soon.
cfs varies dramatically Local river was 290 cfs 2 weeks ago, borderline runnable, technical finding a way through the rocks, then went to 250, which is too low to run. Yesterday it was 4000 cfs, which made for a powerful river, large standing waves, some big holes, yet some spots smoother, yet more powerful than if it were flowing 1200, due to flooding. That’s the beauty of rivers, they are different all the time, for the most part. Also why I sail in the summers, because decent ww is hard to find July and August around here.Check American Whitewater website, ng?s sites to track streamflow on all sorts of rivers and creeks.Your local paddle shop may have links as well on their website.
A river is typically considered either high CFS (big water) or low CFS (technical water) and that really doesn't change much based on rains and water levels. (Note: this doesn't mean that a river's difficulty and paddling characteristics do not dramatically change at different levels. It's just that rivers are usually considered to be one or the other as a general rule of thumb.) Typically the rivers out west are considered high CFS rivers (think Colorado River) as are some of the rivers in the southeast. The midwest is typically known for more technical "rock garden" style rivers which would be considered low CFS. As I see that you're in Ohio, I would guess that most of the rivers around you would fall in the low CFS classification. Heck in all of Wisconsin there is probably only a couple rivers (one of which is the Menominee River) that could be classified as high CFS.
My son went to Antioch, so my probation can’t last longer than a normal co-op assignment. And for Antioch students, there may be no such thing as a normal co-op.
I’m very proud of the Mission Statement. I wrote it myself, using the Dilbert mission statement generator as a resource.
I need to update the list of people on double secret probation. Rick, I’m not up to date. Who’s in, who’s out? Rick is Secretary of the club - he keeps track of all the violations - and there are MANY.
Anyway, back to the topic. Thanks schizopak for the CFS explanation. And thanks to everyone else here who has contributed to my ww education. I’m sure I will think of more questions.
American Whitewater Site will become more and more interesting to you as get more into white water paddling. The site gives info and CFS on most white water runs in each state.
The data are compiled by folks who know these rivers in the various stages of flow. Usually there is a suggested minimal CFS and maximum suggested CFS to run a particular river. At below minimal, you will end up with a very boney run that you will have to drag or carry your boat around certain features. At above maximum flow, you may a river that is over flowing it’s banks. The usual eddy out places may be gone. And fast outside turn on a bend may now be flowing into a stand of trees for a death trap, etc.
I have often heard people reference the American Whitewater site. This time I bookmarked it and will start watching the levels. Up until now, I’ve always depended on others to tell me if the water levels are too high or too low. Need to start doing those things for myself. Looks like the site has LOTS of good info and pictures too.
I’m soliciting opinions on the Prijon Wizard (it’s 7’8")… is this a good mix of river runner & playboat? Would it be likely to catch every edge and flip a novice paddler, or somewhat forgiving?
I also like the looks of the new Liquid Logic Cross River but I have been cautioned about going under 7’. Probably too much of a playboat for me, right?
I know it’s too early to really be fixating on this, but hey, that’s what I do. Part of the fun is obsessing over the various boats with their various features! Gonna demo a bunch anyway, but just wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks for all the good info.
