you lose
glad you realize it.
I had an interesting story along…
– Last Updated: Jun-25-12 8:36 PM EST –
... those same lines, but it's not like you'll care or anything.
Wow, that was long
I am sorry but I don’t have time to address all that. I will say a few things - on "hard"skills like braces: I remember about 4 years afters starting paddling, I bought a Nigel Foster DVD to learn some skills finally. I was amazed that thing I had instinctively done in surf to control myself and not flip had a name and was called “bracing”. Which leads to the comment about calculus - paddling is not calculus, and it goes back to what I said before, some people really take this sport too seriously. Last, I will say that there are a lot of people out there who have no interest in picking up a book on nutrition, just want to stuff their faces because it’s more fun, and will probably die from it, but I’m not going to get all worked up over that like some of you are getting over people not getting training.
Oooh, good point!
– Last Updated: Jun-25-12 10:17 PM EST –
And it's a safe bet that the number of people dying because they have no interest in proper nutrition probably outnumbers that of people who die because they have no interest in proper paddling by several million to one. The process in each individual case is a little slower though!
One of the most condescending post!
“Splashing ain’t paddling”
I haven’t seen anything even close to this in ignorant self-righteousness.
Let’s see, have you taken any instruction on how to walk fast efficiently? Do you know strolling aren’t walking?
What the OP needs are some professional instruction on humanity and tolerance.
I remember his very first post here.
He had a really L-O-N-G question, arranged in his trademark six-word lines, but it included a sidenote, in a scolding tone, admonishing us to stay on topic. Made a bunch of friends that very first day, he did.
Sheep
– Last Updated: Jun-26-12 12:48 AM EST –
Some follow blindly like sheep, some break from the herd.
Am I an expert, hardly.
Do I run a school or outfitting service, nope.
The internet is indeed an odd place and people
will forever choose whatever "tone" or "inference"
they desire based on what is in their head, not mine.
I call it like I see it.
Numerous folks oblivious to conditions splashing around.
Do newbies shun technique?
I question the premise. Am I a newbie? No, not now. But I was once upon a time, and I did not “shun technique”. I got all the training I could. Now, you could qualify pesky counterexamples to your thesis away. For example, you could say I don’t count; what you’re REALLY talking about is newbies TODAY. But isn’t that weakening the claim substantially? Certainly every new year’s batch has all kinds–those who are interested in technique, and those who are not. If it’s okay to paraphrase it that way, that reduces your thesis to triviality: Some people are hard core, most aren’t. Surprise, surprise.
Well…
I have not followed this whole thread, but have skimmed it…man there are some very touchy responses here.
To address the OP’s original premise, I would state it this way:
I believe that the vast majority of relatively less skilled paddlers, have little aspirations of improvement or mastery of the sport.
Is this bad? Well I guess it depends on how you look at it. If there only goal is to get outside on the water, then I guess it works for them.
Personally as someone with a very driven personality I can’t quite identify with not wanting to master any sport that you enjoy, but that may not be for everyone.
I would take a stab and say that kayaking / canoeing is a sport that a relatively small percentage of participants really take seriously in terms of a desire to master it.
Compare it to golf for instance (I am not a golfer but it is a game a lot of people play). There are golfers who have no desire to get better at the sport, but still enjoy it; however, there is probably a higher percentage of golfers who seek to improve at the sport than the percentage of paddlers who seek improvement in their sport.
I know a lot of golfers who go to the driving range, take lessons, practice their swing, etc.
When I go paddling I see a lot of others on the water. I never see a single one of them working on learning to do a bow rudder or side slip, or working on their roll, rescues, etc. Not ever.
Is that wrong? Not necessarily, but it is what I have observed.
Personally I wish that there were a greater percentage of paddlers who were truly passionate about improving, but it is generally not the case. Some of this may also be due to the whole introduction of rec boats where people may not even realize that there is or can be more to the sport than what you can do on a rec boat / sit on top. They are easy for beginners to paddle and there is only so much you can do with them, so in many ways if a paddler has minimal skill he may have “mastered” what one can do in his given craft.
Just my take on it.
Matt
Good point, bowrudder
– Last Updated: Jun-26-12 7:06 AM EST –
To return to the OP, the hyperbole is somewhat overstated in the statement that most newbies think by buying a boat they are "paddlers" and comparing paddling lessons to taking golf lessons. I once had a set of golf clubs and never thought I was a golfer, more just "duffing about". I did break a hundred once though. And was so excited about it that I played the back nine...
If I wanted to get really good at golf, I may have taken some lessons. Or made a concentrated effort to practice, learn techniques from books/videos or from others folks I saw playing from whom I might seek advice. But I also had enough sense to know to come in from the course when a lightning storm approached.
A quick check showed there to be more people dying on golf courses each year than drowning when paddling, whether they are "golfers" or not. I would hope lessons in golfing technique might improve those odds on the course, but I suspect not. Maybe wearing a helmet to protect against errant drives and a grounding wire should be mandated. I also hope the authorities don't take note of the fatalities and start requiring golf lessons as a prerequisite to go onto a golf course or to buy a set of clubs.
Physical fitness and common sense still come into play in both "splashng about" and "duffing about", whether one becomes proficient, or not, at either through formal lessons, or not. It is up to the individual to make that decision and to act accordingly, and to use or seek whatever means available to accomplish it to their satisfaction and goals.
The thing about paddling for many …
– Last Updated: Jun-26-12 11:24 AM EST –
... folks is that it's a means to an end, not an end in itself. The comparison to golf falls apart for that reason. Casual paddlers use their boats to travel to places that they want to be, places that make them feel good. They paddle because they enjoy the scenery, the birdwatching, stuff like that. If they can get out there and come back with minimal or even reasonable effort, that's all they need. Golf? No one takes up golf so they can observe lawnmowers in their natural habitat.
I'm a detail-oriented person and I really do enjoy understanding the finer details of paddling a canoe. I also appreciate the fact that improving my skill lets me travel more easily and deal with adversity better, as well as have more fun in swift water. However, if technique were the only thing, I'd drop it and sell my boats in a heartbeat. I couldn't enjoy paddling where the scenery sucks, some place that's the equivalent of a lap pool. I could learn all the same skills without being in nice outdoor settings, but for me, there'd no longer be a reason.
Well said, bow.
I have tried a little golf
And talked to a lot of golfers of various abilities. Pretty much every one of them has said that golfing is something that you have to get good enough to enjoy, or it will be frustrating for you - for anyone. It’s frustrating for better people who play with you. It’s also frustrating for the group playing behind you. Not so with paddling, it is a sport you can enjoy by yourself, or in a group with people going several different paces in the group.
warn when oblivious to danger
The splashing around part is okay but if I saw someone oblivious to dangerous conditions I would warn them of the danger and urge them off the water or to more protected waters. As I said before more die from not knowing weather and such than from poor technique. I’d hope they more work on learning technique once they know that they really want to do more with paddling but I’d worry about them in dangerous conditions right away.
All Y’all talk too much
You ought to go splashing or paddling or whatever it is that floats ya.
right now that would be my
house.
I do care!
I like interesting stories. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours…
Trying to make a point
– Last Updated: Jun-26-12 10:25 AM EST –
The exaggeration in the comparison to learning calculus is intentional exaggeration to make a point.
To approach the bracing that you refer to: The whole point of training is to refine those things that we do instinctively. An intentional and well developed brace is very different than an instinctive brace. It involves things like keeping your head down, sometimes in the water longer which runs counter to what your instinct tells you.
One more thing to drag the cycling comparison. If you fall off your bike you can get up and climb back on or walk it home. If you capsize, the act of getting back in our boat is more complex than climbing back on your bike and swimming your boat far more exhausting (perhaps not possible)than walking your bike. Given that I live in the PNW, the water is not warm, even in the summer and exposure is what kills most unprepared paddlers and the inability to get out of it can be lethal if you're not dressed for it. Even then all it buys you is a bit of time.
To put a finer point on "Skills" and "training", this is the intentional and deliberate act of refining/modifying instinctive reactions into conscious and intentional actions, and, in so doing, improve upon them and increase their efficiency and reliability.
Regarding length
Many want short simple answers to what can turn into rather complex topics. This has strayed well into the weeds and the weeds are full on complex questions and answers.
I try to stay away from specious comparisons, such as cycling, or nutrition and I don’t love the calculus comparison. This is about paddling. Paddling happens in an environment, even in it’s most benign form, that will kill you if you don’t respect it and learn how to cope with it, and that includes the bath tub.
What I don’t understand is the absolutely hostile attitude folks have towards instructors, coaches and training. Hell, I’ve even said , if you’ve bothered to read what I’ve said, that if paddling around on the pond behind your house is all you do, great! But for those that head out through the break in their Pamlico after floating on their pond and have no training, or education are going to get into trouble. Maybe not the first time, but it’s coming.
Hostile Attitude
– Last Updated: Jun-26-12 11:47 AM EST –
Speaking for myself, but also as near as I can tell in terms of most of the "contrary" posts I've seen, the hostile attitude is not toward anyone who says the kinds of things you've been saying. In fact, I don't recall a post conveying a hostile attitude toward instructors or skills improvement. The hostile attitude is toward the O.P. himself because of his string of statements to the effect that no one wants to improve, all newbies are risking their lives, no one with poor technique can cover any kind of distance at any reasonable speed without being totally worn-out afterward. It's these over-the-top, over-generalized, all-or-nothing type of statements to which the rebuttals have been directed. I can't see that anyone here has disputed that being unprepared and unskilled is a bad thing in a lot of situations, or that being ignorant of risk sometimes causes people do do things that they shouldn't, but let's not lose sight of the fact that there's plenty of room for "duffers" (to bring in the golfing terminology) having fun in non-demanding, low-risk environments. You yourself have recognized this fact, but the O.P. has shown nothing but contempt for such folks.