Dave:
Ewwwwwwwwwww.
Jim
Tell me where it has been shown to be
false that penetrating oils penetrate better than varnish. This certainly is NOT what happens when I varnish or oil paddle handles. Only the oil penetrates well into the grain.
And, as far as the notion of penetrating oil leaving a surface coat, it does not on the furniture I finish, because after quite a few coats of Minwax 209, I apply the final coat by wet-sanding with 600 paper. Then I wipe immediately. Obviously the surface is going to consist of wood fibers surrounded by resin, but the final wiping prevents any resin surface coat.
Nice to read a post from someone who
Knows something about the subject.
You may as well use
Bullshit !! It’s as good as some of the advice some have given you.
Bullshil as paddle finish
Cockneykayaker,
As a self proclaimed varnish expert, you should know that bullshit would be too dry and lumpy for a paddle finish. Try fresh Canadian Goose shit if you are determined to go to go natural for your paddle finish. There are many other finish products in the natural world that would be better than bullshit.
Dave
Ah, Cockeye.
At least others have offered genuine advice (yes, mixed with some fun) rather than smug retorts. Not to make things too personal but, you really are a wanker.
Okay, g2…
– Last Updated: Aug-15-08 8:44 AM EST –
...I'll try to keep this short, mainly because it's not worth it and I'm a slow typist. First, I'm not a scientist, but I have been actively working wood both professionally and as a hobby since childhood and have read more books, magazines, trade publications, technical manuals, MSDS reports, etc. that relate to the subject at hand than I care to ponder. Does that qualify me as an expert? I think not, but my boss might disagree.
Rather than wade into the technical morass that threatens nearby, I offer three sources that I could find without too much trouble;
Fine Woodworking magazine #178 (Chris A. Minick's article titled "Wipe-On Finish Test"
FWW magazine # 177 (Minick again,"Pros and Cons of Oil Finishes")
Michael Dresdner's "The Woodfinishing Book" (many references to various oil finishes)
Admittedly, these publications are aimed at the lay person and won't fully bolster my position, but may influence yours. Really, g2, we're likely closer on this than we think! As for Cockneykayaker...well, see my post below.
Can we resume having fun now?
I Don’t Know Squat About Woodworking
– Last Updated: Aug-14-08 8:44 PM EST –
but I know pretty.
Rub tung oil evenly on the paddle. Let it dry. Take a very fine steel wool and rub it well. You get the color but not the gloss.
Looks beautiful. Feels good, too.
Tung oil and steel wool
Pure tung oil is slow to dry. Most of the products on store shelves called “tung oil” are blended with other stuff and often contain little or no tung oil. The modified “tung oil” finishes do dry much faster than pure tung oil. Very hard to tell actual contents of the blended “tung oil” as ingredients are not clearly listed. If you want tung oil for a finish, buy 100% tung oil and cut it yourself with terp or good quality mineral spirits. That way you know what you are getting.
I’m going to try an old boatbuilders mix, substituting tung oil for linseed oil. 60% pure tung oil, 30% pure terp and 10% spar varnish (oil, not poly). If I like how it works I’ll post my experience with the blend.
Using steel wool on paddles leaves fibers that rust, especially in salt water. Bronze wool, while costly, works better for boats and paddles. A price compromise is using good wet/dry sandpaper in a very fine grit.
Dave
I’m only citing my own
experience. I read Fine Woodworking now and then, and I always learn alot, but they almost never are doing the same things I am doing, and they are almost never using the same methods. Varnish wears off my paddle handles, leaving nothing discernible. Penetrating oil fills the grain, keeps it from getting sodden from use, and leaves a non-slick surface.
Yes, what you’re doing with wet-sanding
an oil finish is creating a fine slurry that helps to fill the pores and other tiny voids in the surface of the wood. I agree that this approach, with regular maintenance, is a viable method of controlling water infiltration and feels great in hand too.
Curiously, I’ve had for years a favorite cooking spoon made of cherry that I use almost daily that’s never had any finish on it at all. It suffers constant immersion in acidic, salty, hot concoctions, left to dry encrusted, then soaked in hot detergent-laced water and scrubbed with a Scotchbrite pad over and over again. It doesn’t really look half bad! Sure, it’s a little grey and a little fuzzy at the end grain, but damn! Makes me think that maybe paddles don’t really need any finish at all other than, perhaps, a little wax on the business end!
Well the bullshit comment was meant
– Last Updated: Aug-15-08 2:01 AM EST –
In jest. As to the name calling, that's pathetic.
If it were my paddle
I would avoid epoxy as this is prone to chalking (loss of gloss & film breakdown due to UV degradation)
I would avoid oils as these can take too long to dry and even if modified with “driers” (A catalyst to promote oxidation) the final film contains a chemical group prone to attack by moisture in the long term.
If you want to use an oil then Tung oil is best as this is more reactive than oils like linseed.
My choice would be a single pack polyurethane.
The first coat should be well thinned to assist penetration of the wood followed by light sanding to remove any “swollen” grain. Subsequent coats should be applied after allowing drying as recommended by the manufacturer.
Yeah, I let you push me…
…to a new low. That IS pathetic, I agree. In defence, I can only offer in evidence your inane ‘define varnish’ post. I’ll try and do something about the ugly bug up me arse in the meantime.
Thanks for ponying up with a legitimate paddle finishing option. I didn’t know you had it in you.
Try a simple penetration test
Apply an oil finish to a piece of wood and let it cure. take a plane and set if for a very fine cut, say .003" or less (For those not familiar with hand planes, that’s a shaving that you can see through and is the thickness of a typical human hair). Plane the finished surface and count how many strokes it takes before you get to bare wood. Hint: it will be 2 or less.
Oil penetration into wood is a myth. While any finish will penetrate on end grain, nothing penetrates more than a few thousandths of an inch when applied to flat or edge grain.
My Choice
– Last Updated: Aug-15-08 8:21 AM EST –
Is to use epoxy and urethane...I finish my paddles by putting 2 coats of slow dry epoxy on 4 hours apart.
That way I also get a no sand chemical bond.
I then let it cure for a min of 5 days....then lightly sand
After that I spray them with a 2 part urethane...then cure 3 days min.
a little more involved than probably necessary for a 4 H project. And it takes special equiptment to spray the urethane.
for a 4 H project , Tung oil would be the way to go....just slather it on and rub it in....let dry for about a week in warmth. rub more on as needed.
easy to do and easy to replentish and reasonable price and looks good.
Best Wishes
Roy
Sorry, that’s just plain wrong
While it’s true that oils fill the pores in wood, IF you apply several coats and/or sand while applying it as you described, varnish does the EXACT same thing. Take two pieces of wood with the two coatings and look at them under some serious magnification and you’ll see that. When varnish wears off a surface, the pores are still filled. That’s why the surface is still harder than it was before the varnish was applied.
My varnish post wasn’t a troll
– Last Updated: Aug-15-08 8:22 AM EST –
As some see it. Although we use the same words they have different meanings depending on which side of the Atlantic you live.
A further complication is my business/professional background which means that terminolgy commonly used to describe a coating type may mean one thing to the layman but something different to me.
For example kanoo referring to shellac as a varnish is technically wrong although I accept it that some view as such.
I ran foul of Arkay some months ago when I queried his use of the term Alkyd and comparing it with synthetic products when an Alkyd is a synthetic product.
His response was less than friendly and I responded just as badly.
My motive was to help even if I am treading on some traditional toes.
Exactly
If you apply a “tung oil” product and it cures to a gloss, it’s not real tung oil or has very little in it. Pure tung oil cures to a soft, satin finish. It sounds like he was using a “Tung Oil Finish” product which was actually a wiping varnish, which seems to be the case with most of them.
As for blending tung oil and varnish, I’ve found that you can go as high as 60% varnish and still end up with a nice satin finish, thought that may depend on the varnish you use to some extent. I’ve tried it with both natural resin varnish (Epiphanes) and with polyurethanes and the result were pretty much the same.
While I like the scent that turpentine adds to finishes, after experimenting with several blends, I haven’t found that there’s any benefit to adding it or any other thinner to the mix, so I’ve stopped doing it.
In my experience, tung oil cures as fast or faster than “boiled” linseed oil and one can apply a coat per day. Perhaps you’re thinking of raw linseed oil, which can take weeks to cure?
Rather than using an kind of metal wool as an applicator, I’ve found that wet/dry sandpaper works better. I sand the paddle in steps through 400 grit (80/100, 150, 220, 400) before finishing, apply two coats of oil/varnish blend, then apply the third and forth coats with 400 grit sandpaper. The result is a very smooth, relatively hard, satin surface that’s more resistant to dings than a surface that’s not sanded as fine.
2 component polyurethane is also
A good choice if you have the correct equipment.
Please be aware that the isocynate component is hazardous and inhalation of the spray droplets can cause Asthma. If you then become sensitised an attack can be triggered by any contact with this chemical.