Sweet song. Thanks. Even if it’s about that other kind of boat. 
Sweet song. Thanks. Even if it’s about that other kind of boat.
This might be more to your liking:
LOL! Thanks for that GBG.
@DrowningDave said:
I still think anyone who does whitewater kneeling in a canoe is crazy. Have you heard they have boat where you can sit comfortably while using a paddle that has two ends so you don’t have to switch sides?
Open boaters cross over, but never switch sides! These guys did a pretty good job keeping up with the kayakers.
https://vimeo.com/257314726
This is an upstream section of the same river.
I know a lot of people that complain about sitting locked in the kayak for an extended period. Kneeling at least you can move around a little.
@castoff said:
Ah Dave I understand the case you are making, I really enjoy my canoes and when I paddle them I think Wow I really love paddling a Canoe, and when i paddle my sea kayak I think Wow I really love paddling my Kayak. The skill set of a single blade paddle in a canoe is fun to me, and the skill set of handling a kayak is too. I am just glad my boats aren’t jealous!
Then there are the sailboats.
@eckilson said:
@DrowningDave said:
I still think anyone who does whitewater kneeling in a canoe is crazy. Have you heard they have boat where you can sit comfortably while using a paddle that has two ends so you don’t have to switch sides?Open boaters cross over, but never switch sides! These guys did a pretty good job keeping up with the kayakers.
https://vimeo.com/257314726
This is an upstream section of the same river.I know a lot of people that complain about sitting locked in the kayak for an extended period. Kneeling at least you can move around a little.
True, and for most types of solo-canoe paddling there’s virtually no need to ever cross over. You can make a canoe do almost any kind of maneuver with the paddle only being used on one side.
Paddling a kayak in whitewater is sort of like playing checkers. Paddling a canoe in whitewater is like playing chess. Both are OK.
As for whitewater open boaters not switching sides, although that is what is generally taught, I have seen world class whitewater open boaters switch sides now and then. Harold Deal and Jeremy Laucks (of Blackfly Canoes) are two. Even Kent Ford in one of his whitewater solo canoeing videos says it is fine to switch now and again.
@string said:
@castoff said:
Ah Dave I understand the case you are making, I really enjoy my canoes and when I paddle them I think Wow I really love paddling a Canoe, and when i paddle my sea kayak I think Wow I really love paddling my Kayak. The skill set of a single blade paddle in a canoe is fun to me, and the skill set of handling a kayak is too. I am just glad my boats aren’t jealous!Then there are the sailboats.
While your boats aren’t jealous, your wife is happy.
@pblanc said:
“Paddling a kayak in whitewater is sort of like playing checkers. Paddling a canoe in whitewater is like playing chess. Both are OK.”
I used to like to kayak,
but never jumped past fair to square,
where read I in black, “King me haystack!”
Was a roll where stacked king’s aren’t spared.
Now in canoe I’m vassal vessel.
backwards knight on way to chess pawn,
as with blade I wrassle rapidly past castle,
till demoted unboated b’rook’s gone.
cold air and water temps, long continous rapid, easy to swamp out in, eck I’d walk it too and
hit it up when conditions are more favorable (warmer)
@pblanc said:
As for whitewater open boaters not switching sides, although that is what is generally taught, I have seen world class whitewater open boaters switch sides now and then. Harold Deal and Jeremy Laucks (of Blackfly Canoes) are two. Even Kent Ford in one of his whitewater solo canoeing videos says it is fine to switch now and again.
I don’t switch side very often, but one time that I should is side surfing with the paddle on the upstream side - a recipe for disaster, but I do it all the time.
always thought the switching sides or not switching sides thing was somewhat regional- learned to paddle in Maine- everything was done on the same side, and if you needed something more on the opposite side then cross strokes were done or perhaps the under utilized pry to compensate and change boat angle. I was paddling tandem canoes and was instilled with the idea that you were much more vulnerable to tipping over if both folks were paddling on the same side.
I moved south onto the cumberland plateau and then wv and started paddling c1. The not switching sides thing disappeared. Just a general melding of styles, from hit and switch in the pools between the rapids, to paddling on whichever side made an upstream ferry or peelout the easiest. I’ve always been dominant on my left side so that is how I took on the biggest rapids. There are some rapids that I wish I was right handed- like pillow rock (inertia hole on Gauley) and Shoulder Snapper (Tygart) .
Now a days I kayak (my body can’t take kneeling). Still I’m better on the left than the right but it is handy having a brace and power stroke on both sides of the boat. c1ing really works on your balance, kind of miss that challenge, and the tight torque you get on an eddy turn with a single blade since you can get your weight right over the pivot point. I was mostly a float and low brace kind of guy back in my c1 days. Meaning I wasn’t all that skilled (play boating)but good at staying upright. (river running).
For me paddling is not about the boat, but being in the outdoors. Everything has a trade off. WW canoes tend to be big and heavy and hard to carry with their saddles (although that is changing with newer boat designs). Bailing, pumping or running dry lines is necessary in bigger water. That’s part of the fun. Not so much of an emphasis on rolling with most open boaters, although the elite have that down. So there’s more to factor in when choosing to run rapids with an open canoe. Take away the flotation, add an extended trip setting and the stakes get even higher if choosing to run a rapid. There are differences for sure between canoes and kayaks but after spending time in duckies and rafts those lines sort of blur.
I’ve had fun in lots of different ww boats- open canoes, c1s, kayaks (creekers and river runners), squirt boats, duckies and rafts. For me it’s just about getting out. The roll has been pretty non existant for me the last few years so now I kayak with an open boater mentality. Last spring I forgot my sprayskirt for a bluestone river trip. I still boated, I just had to empty the boat a few times and ran a lot of dry (sneak) lines. All in all a good day, reminded me of canoeing. I still rec canoe. The kneeling thing is just a no go for me now so it limits me to class I and II. Swimming with a canoe ain’t easy.
We’ve got an expression “It’s all good” Meaning that as long as you are having fun and coming back in one piece , you’re doing it the right way. Formal instruction is great, but so is experimentation, individualism, following your own path; be it carrying over the rocks, or charging through the center of the rapid. One of my favorite things is watching open boaters do 360s in a hole. Getting that paddle into the other hand while surfing is just cool.
I can’t do it, but it’s sure fun to watch in awe…ahhh I can still dream even if what I’m best at is couch surfing.
I always switch sides in order to maintain balanced muscle and joint stresses and strains. I’ve had too much neck, shoulder and back issues to unnecessarily work only one side of my body.
Paddling mainly on one side of a properly sized solo canoe has never made sense to me, especially for non whitewater recreational paddling.
Yanoer, same here, but I think the issue in this case is switching sides “right now” in the name of boat control. I try to work both sides equally and develop the same degree of skill on each side, and as a benefit, one side doesn’t get stressed more than the other. And though I try to avoid switching sides just for the sake of maneuvering, I’ll often choose which side to paddle on when it’s advantageous to do so. Examples would be short ferries in swift current, where the boat’s momentum interacts with the current (on a really long ferry in steady current, which side you paddle on makes no difference, but while momentum is in effect this choice makes a huge difference). Wind is an obvious example where paddling on one side can be much easier than paddling on the other. Also, on sharp river bends, where paddling on the side of the boat that the water passes the hull more rapidly reduces and often eliminates the need for correction strokes. This means that I paddle on the side toward the inside of the bend when going downstream, and on the side toward the outside of the bend when going upstream (this makes a huge difference in a lot of cases). No point in making things harder than they have to be by paddling on the less-efficient side.
I only ran it once at that was about 30 years ago. In our group of 4 or 5 I was the only one not to swim and I was by far not the best paddler in the group but as I explained to the rest of the group that was farthest I had ever paddled with my eyes closed
@SoloBill said:
I only ran it once at that was about 30 years ago. In our group of 4 or 5 I was the only one not to swim and I was by far not the best paddler in the group but as I explained to the rest of the group that was farthest I had ever paddled with my eyes closed
Good one!