ah, that makes sense
thanks NJ.
Romany/Avocet
The Romany came out in 1992 (I think). The Avocet is much newer. Maybe 2000.
The problem with demos
– Last Updated: May-29-07 3:07 PM EST –
If it is possible, demo the boat after your class. Don't get too hung up on demoing because one could demo forever!
The Slipstream is a good boat. If you get it, you won't need to replace it anytime soon. That is, it could, quite easily, be a "lifetime" boat.
It's a real sea kayak with a good reputation.
Lively boats?
One of the most popular boats for rough water is the most unlively - the Explorer. Almost flat on the bottom and loads of primary stability.
I found the Slipstream to be fast - if that’s lively. It’s not overly stable but not twitchy either. I have a friend selling one in Branford CT. Same price or maybe it’s the one you’re interested in. He’s selling it because he’s handicapped and needs a slightly more stable boat. I enjoyed my trial in it.
Nothing beats a trial.
Classifieds - ConnYak.org
Where are you?
– Last Updated: May-29-07 3:17 PM EST –
So, where are you located (generally)?
Is the boat you are looking at orange?
What I meant by playful
The Gulfstream is wider proportionate to its length than the Slipstream as I recall, could be wrong there, also the hull is not exactly the same between the two. I tried them the same day, and the Gulfstream was interesting because even though it was cavernously too large for me I could get it to really scoot around with little effort.
The Slipstream felt more like a go forward boat, though still plenty manuverable.
Playful to me is a bit different than manuverable. Playful wants to scoot around, manuverable will if you ask for it.
Obviously there is the waterline issue - at my size I didn’t have nearly the amount of waterline going in the Gulfstream (much less than design intended) as I did in the Slipstream (all of it that was intended).
Noisiness
The Slipstream never seemed to be as hot a boat as many first hoped, I suspect for two reasons. My opinion only.
One huge one is that it is too small for the average sized male paddler, and it is a boat that a beginner will get into and find to be very “tippy”. Sorry to say, but for the longest time females were a lot less willing to start out in a boat that wiggled around like that than guys often were. (I seem to think that is finally changing, but maybe it’s a flashback.)
The other thing is that it is a boat designed to handle big water that came out when the east coat was getting much better access to boats that to the more aggressive paddlers may have seemed even sexier, like Valley and NDK boats. The Slipstream isn’t as low profile as these full-out Brit boats, nor is it as unchallenging as many of the older North American boats that were designed when long boaters were still not rolling and surfing and all that jazz as much as now. She’s a good boat that had the misfortune to land in the middle of a change.
Lack of buzz is not a reason to look by a boat. If going straight isn’t a priority and you don’t mind wet hatch covers, one of the best learning boats we have in our little fleet is a second year drop skeg Necky Elaho. No one buzzes about this boat, it was barely around, but if you don’t mind lugging its 60 pounds around it is a great skills boat.
it a red boat
I’m in NJ. The boat is in NY, a 3 hour drive away…
Paddle group in NJ?
Seems there’s gotta be one - maybe a source of used boats if the Slipstream seems to not pan out. People are so fickle once they get into this sport about what boat they love… anyone?
Generally a good boat
I’ve had one for 5 years now. It’s a good boat for the smaller paddler (I’m 5’6", 140lbs). The light weight is a great bonus. Actually I should note that my wife kind of took possesion of it once she tried it.
My impression is that it is a great boat at the beginner and intermediate levels. It handles well, is relatively stable, rolls well, paddles easily at touring speeds. It does have some minuses that surface as skills improve such as the secondary stability point is not very distinct (its hard to tell how far you can edge it without capsize - I can’t do a gracefull reverse figure 8 in it), gets a little hard to control in heavy rear quartering seas, has much less usable storage space than similar length kayaks because the bow and stern are heavily pinched (very narrow near the ends), the front deck is a little higher than I’d like.
Does my wife still paddle it? Usually No. As her skills improved we would go out in more challenging conditions and last year she found herself in some two to three foot rear quartering wind waves that made her feel a little unstable and made it hard to maintain control - so the lustre of the Slipstream started to fade in her eyes. So she decided to try something new and now has a NDK Romany (in Elite layup so the weight is the same as the Slipstream) and a plastic WS Tempest 165. So far she really loves both the Romany and the Tempest for rough conditions, but usually prefers the Romany (elite) for its light weight. FYI, the Elite layup of the Romany is visibly not as strong/durable as the regular Slipstream layup.
The only maintenance problem we’ve had with the Slipstream is that I had to re-seal the hatch rims. (ugh)
Is a Slipstream too lively? I’m not sure what “too lively” means, but I would say “no” it is not too lively. I wouldn’t hesitate to take it into the coastal waters of Maine. Actually my wife is the only one who’s paddled it in the water off of Maine. You don’t want a kayak that stays stubbornly flat (from side to side) on the water surface. As water gets “textured” you want a boat that can stay flat (side to side) to the horizon, not the water surface.
Now, would I recommend that you buy that Slipstream for $1,900 (or maybe less with a little haggling?). If it’s in good condition - Yes! No kayak is perfect. It’s difficult to find a seakayak this light, for a small person, in this price range. This kayak will work well for you and will get you on the water. If in a few years you’ve improved your skills and you want to try a different boat, great. Buy a different (and probably more expensive) boat and sell the Slipstream. No big deal. Either way the Slipstream will give you your moneys worth.
FYI, I think that the Slipstream has much less storage space than the other boats you mentioned. For camping you’ll have to think and pack like a backpacker, especially if you need to carry all of your drinking water.
Carrying water
Sorry - just can’t seem to manage a full coherent thought today.
If camping along the Maine Island Trail, on the islands that run up the coastline, you have to a carry your own water. And carry (all) your own waste off. So capacity starts getting to be more of an issue than places where you can just use local water and at most drop something in it to clean up the bacteria. If that is the kind of camping you plan, you need to get a fix on relative storage from someone who has very recent and fresh experience. I’d go with the advice of the above poster re relative storage space.
He also says well what I was hesitant to say, that there may be a point in your skills development where you’d be looking for another boat. But unlike many much older North American designs, that point comes when you are fairly well along. There is nothing for a quite a while that would cause you to look elsewhere, and getting the durability for the weight is tough.
thanks Celia and Nelson
Hey, since my husband is going to need a BIG boat, maybe I’ll just pack my stuff in his!!!
Nelson, thanks for the details about how the Slipstream handles in rougher conditions. The “hard to control” part your wife encountered is what I was concerned about. She had a skeg on hers? Does the Romany she paddles now have a skeg or a rudder? Funny you should mention the Slipstream hatch covers, since although the boat is new, I was wondering if the rubber of the covers may have suffered from heat at all. The boat is kept in a shed, but I’m sure it gets very hot in there. I didn’t think to check them out carefully, just noticed they were dusty. Otherwise, it was all shiny 
Celia, thanks for pointing out that water carrying capacity is definitely an issue on Maine islands. (It seems funny that I would be so hung up on what boat will work in Maine (instead of here in NJ) since I’ll probably only be there once a year, but still, I want to be there once a year and have my own boat and not have to rent one that doesn’t fit me.)
Good things to keep in mind as I do some demos this weekend (and more weekends to come I’m sure). I’ll just keep trying out boats and not worry too much about a boat “getting away”, there is always another deal to be had somewhere…
First separate the poles from the tent.
Then the tent becomes a long but flexable sausage that you can stuff way up into the bow or stern. The poles slide easily into space along the keel in either trhe bow or stern.
wait a minute…
– Last Updated: May-29-07 5:13 PM EST –
one one hand you say....is relatively stable,
and then.......It does have some minuses that surface as skills improve such as the secondary stability point is not very distinct (its hard to tell how far you can edge it without capsize - I can't do a gracefull reverse figure 8 in it),
is it relatively stable or NOT?
relatively stable would mean to this cowboy: predictable roll plane/stability curves that DID give you a distinct secondary and a stable initial feeling. No?
Tip...I mean Slipstream?
We used to sell 'em and I have paddled them ALOT. IMO this boat has some of the softist secondary in this 'class'...much different than the Gulf or Scirrocooooo. Hense your feeling of NOT actually 'relatively stable' but rather loose on edge.
at least sit in it and feel how high the cockpit combing is in the rear compared with just about ANY other boat.
I'm giving you the advice to demo this boat before buying.
just 2 cents worth
steve
Scoot
"The Gulfstream is wider proportionate to its length than the Slipstream as I recall, could be wrong there"
The Gulfstream is 23.75 inches. It’s oddly very wide for a “real” sea kayak.
To me, “playful” = “manueverable” = “wants to turn”. I think this understanding is fairly common. I’m not really sure what “scoot” means. (Maybe, quick to accelerate?)
The Anas Acuta is a very “playful” boat but does not track well. The Romany is more “playful” than the Explorer because the Romany is shorter.
“Obviously there is the waterline issue - at my size I didn’t have nearly the amount of waterline going in the Gulfstream”
That could explain a lot.
Interesting take
– Last Updated: May-29-07 5:19 PM EST –
An interesting take on the history.
Also, the Slipstream/Gulfstream was being sold by a company whose "bread and butter" boats were the huge Solstice boats. The Soltice line was very popular some years ago when everybody was "planning" on doing a 2 week expedition every week!
(The Soltice boats are fine. They are just, in my opinion, much too big for 99.9% of the paddling that people really do.)
Maine/NJ
– Last Updated: May-29-07 5:48 PM EST –
It's not unreasonable or very hard to have a boat that will work very well in both places!
$1900 is a good price for a new boat (even if it's been around for a few years) but don't feel too pressured to bite the hook.
"Does the Romany she paddles now have a skeg or a rudder?" A rudder?? No rudders on Romanys!!
rear cockpit coaming
– Last Updated: May-29-07 5:46 PM EST –
"at least sit in it and feel how high the cockpit combing is in the rear compared with just about ANY other boat."
I suppose you are suggesting it is higher than most other sea kayaks?
I think Steve's post is going to be confusing to the original poster (other than the "demo it" advice).
"just 2 cents worth" --> Steve's posts are usually worth much more than that!
Playful or Demanding
I tend to think of my Romany and my Elaho DS as being very playful boats. Both are easy to edge, brace, roll, turn, etc… The Romany has very high primary and well defined secondary stability. As I heard one coach say “You should be embarrassed if you capsize in that boat.”
I tend to term boats that require a lot of attention as being demanding. This can include boats whose stability points are very vague. Classic Nordkapps are among this cohort in many discussions. I found the Sirius to be very vague in its secondary and therefore a more demanding boat than many.
I think of playful and demanding as different characteristics.
Yes!
Yes! I’d have little difficulty recommending a “playful” boat. I would be rather cautious in recommending a “demanding” boat.