Dont worry about the equipment
like pads and paddles.
Much of the fun we have is seeing what others use and finding out why they like something in particular. There is enough gear to share.
Footwear is the big issue. Most of us paddle at these events in scantily clad feet. Obviously that does not work for ordinary tripping and ordinary practical freestyle. Hard soled shoes lead to feet cramps for many. I use canyoneering shoes and they work fine on wilderness trips too for me.
We would love to see you there…and talk footbraces. My Peregrine needs a set for sure.
Just one more thought
Symposiums are great because of the people that are there. I learn most of what I know from the instructors. But, I pick up a lot of little “techniques” from other attendees. (Usually during meal times or around the campfire.) Kind of fine tuning stuff.
The Midwest FS is really intense and there is a lot of information packed into a weekend. It sounds like you won’t be able to make it this year. Which is a shame.
Another thought is to get your local paddling club to “host” a freestyle instructor to conduct a class for the club. There are a couple really excellent instructors that I can think of in the midwest.
It sounds like you really want to give it a try. It also sounds like you accept that you might not be able to heel as far while sitting, but are willing give it your best. Sounds like you should try to attend a Freestyle Symposium.
Reporting back…
Well… that was an eye opener. I’ll wait to hear what the instructors have to say about exactly how it should be done… but I found getting into a transverse position with a knee on the rails easier from seated than I’ve ever found it from kneeling!
I was comfortable with various techniques on the onside, and soon found one that worked on the off-side. All ways of moving got me further forward than I could have managed in one move from kneeling (really loosening up the stern) and I really had a ball.
Did eventually end up counting fishes… but only when getting up on the front thwart to try a pretty extreme wedge!
MFS is also the Canoeists
Garlic Festival.
No there isnt garlic in everything but you have the opportunity to buy any of several varieties of hard necked garlic that is air dried. It will last for months.
One of the organizers is a garlic farmer. And does a great job.
Well that explains
the scarcity of vampires at that venue.
I always wondered…
Another thought
I think “kneeling” is a decieving term to some. Many people have trouble putting much weight on their knees for very long and don’t realize that a solo seat can be adjusted so very little of your weight is actually on the knees when in the “kneeling” position. I have helped many people by adjusting their seat height and angle so they can choose how much weight to put on their knees,if any. This enables them to use their knees breefly to manover and then unload them for the majority of the time. If the wieght on them and not the position is the problem,this will help.
Turtle
excellent point
Until recently I never realized how little weight I actually carry on my knees while canoeing. Lately I’ve developed a bit of an issue in my right knee that makes it painful to kneel … except in a canoe! I have no pain whatsoever in a canoe. But “true” kneeling, independent of a canoe seat or saddle, is painful for me.
My wife isn’t sure she’s buying it though …
arthritis
and a pedestal.
The pedestal or perhaps a saddle of proper height has taken the pressure off the knees for arthritic people. Yes its possible to have a seat and a saddle right in front of it.
I have no cartilage in one knee. I cant do deep knee bends. But for some reason kneeling on a comfy pad rarely causes pain.
We did have one sitting paddler in one class at MFS. Yes you do lose the ability to pitch the bow down, but the same principles in FS canoeing have been used by accomplished kayakers for years.
Recent History
Just returned from the MidWest FS Symposium, a great event!
There were three folks there as students, sitting low in Placid boatworks RapidFires. They all used short, straight, single sticks. Heels were somewhat proscribed but all three got a tremendous hoot out of Christies and Wedges.
How to kneel without weight on knees?
Does someone need a wood shop, endless amounts of closed cell foam and other apparatus, materials and copious amounts of time to muddle around until eventually landing upon a kneeling solution that doesn’t cause them pain?
If minimal weight is on the knees, that would suggest that most of the weight is on the butt and that would suggest that the seat is pretty low, which would suggest that the knees and ankles are bent relatively severely, which might in turn result in knee or ankle pain and difficulty getting the feet under the seat and out from under the seat, unless, of course, using a pedestal seat, rather than a gunwale hung seat.
I’m not trying to be grumpy or difficult here, but I just don’t get enough exposure around here to different kneeling options to identify one that’s comfortable for me.
How does one kneel without putting much weight on one’s knees?
At last weekend’s relatively nearby (200 mile round trip) moving water paddling clinic, I did use my NRS wetshoes and they were more comfortable for kneeling than my Chota Quicklace Mukluks, but kneeling still wasn’t comfortable for long. I also used some soft 1/2" camping pad for the kneeling pad instead of the strap on knee pads and that worked ok also, except for the pad slipping around a little.
Maybe I’ll come up with something relatively comfortable for relatively long periods of time, but it may require attending a large gathering of experienced solo canoe outfitters, such as the MFS, to get a hands on education on which set up works best for me and how to implement it in my boat, but that will have to wait until next year. I rarely see other solo canoe paddlers around here.
Until then, I’ll continue to sit most of the time and kneel a little now and then just to mess around or when conditions require it.
Thanks for all of the suggestions from everyone.
Cool.
Maybe I’ll be able to make it next year.
How I do it
No,the seat doesn’t need to be real low. The height and angle varies with the length of the paddlers upper legs. I add or subtract/substitute spacers the a gunnel hung seat untill they are comfortable and have a working pair(ft and rear) of dementions. Sometimes this requites longer seat screws. Then some have custom drops made to match or many just leave them be. You can keep the original drops to reinstall if you want to sell the boat. On a boat with a hung seat it’s not rocket science. Some seats are better for rear end unloading than others(I think Swift’s are tops for this problem).Often a factory seats(which must be a compromize) hieght/angle fit is inapproiate for a spicific paddler’s dementions. I have changed every solo boat’s drops I have ever owned.
Turtle
no actually you have things a little
mixed up.
If anything seats for kneelers tend to be pretty high so 90 percent of your weight is butt borne. You just kind of support your butt on the edge of the seat.
You get control and recovery from tipping from your knees which being relatively unloaded are easy to slide around. You might notice that from You Tube FS people go every which way in the canoe, but it IS possible to work all 4 quadrants from butt on the seat facing more or less forward.
Pants are a plus ( that one grain of sand on your pad can wreak havoc with your knees…can you say facial peel?)
Get some 3/4" or 1" minicell
… and contact cement it in where it belongs, with your knees in the chines. It’s truly luxurious!
If all you’ve tried is some kind of 1/2" camp pad and strap on knee pads, you don’t know how comfy kneeling can be.
If you use 1" minicell, I’d thin it down some where your knees fall.
Christie in a Rapidfire
Very encouraging to here about Rapidfire’s doing freestyle moves. A beginner at it, I have good days and days that make me so frustrated I want to bite my paddle. (I won’t do it- it’s a Dogpaddle). I move up from my Rapidfire’s sliding seat and only apply knee pressure as I attempt to execute a freestyle move, my knees seem to barely feel the pressure. You can sit back down after freestyling and it may help. Take the inside circle class, it’s quick turns and no knee pressure…jesse
Off to Home Crapot
and buy a package of four antifatigue mats. They should cost less than $20 for the package. Put the puzzle pieces together…fit in your boat and ram em under the gunwales then trim.
If they were branded as a paddling item they would be four times as much.
Minicell is minicell.
really?
The puzzle mats are as comfy and soft as minicell you’d buy at a paddle shop? You must have a line on softer puzzle mats than I’ve bought.
waffle side down
I cant tell the difference in minicell softness Except in my ribbed boat. Thats where the CCS mat is handy. Ribs and spaces between ribs hurt.
There are differences in puzzle mats lately though. I saw a slew of mini puzzles at MFS, and they looked thin.
A hint from a horse owner I met…look for stable matting. That probably is expensive but if there is a spare remnant the owner might be willing to part with it for a bargain.
stable matting
I used it under our kids’ swing. Heavy, heavy stuff. And it would be terribly abrasive on your knees. Heavy horses with hooves aren’t gentle.
I havent used it
– Last Updated: Sep-15-10 9:11 AM EST –
but was told about it from a FS instructor former horse owner. Maybe it has a different name. Just like there are different foams.
I was talking about this
http://www.frelonicstablemats.com/