Splitrock, Osprey, Mist, Prism? Which?

No Magic?
The Bell Magic would seem to fit the bill almost perfectly. Available in light weight layups, fast, can handle wind/waves, and has just enough rocker let you turn without too much trouble but still tracks well.



I have one and am very happy with it, it’s a great boat. I mostly day trip with it but have also raced it and taken it on multi-day fishing/camping trips with the dog.



Alan

For what you want to do, I would not
consider either Bluewater boat. The Mist is obsolete and the Splitrock is not suitable for very wavy open water.



And I’m a Bluewater fan and owner.



If you can’t find a suitable boat from what Wenonah offers, I don’t think we can help you.

So – Osprey not fast but nibble
Tommy,



Your comment really confirm what I have heard elsewhere. Sounds like everyone loves the Osprey for a versatile nimble boat when paddled kneeling, but NOT a boat for sitting in on big waves.



Some have recommended the Shearwater as a better big water sitting boat.

No dealer near me
Alas, I can only gaze longingly from afar at the Magic. No dealer within 1,000 miles of here. And, sad to say, the other dealers do not, as a rule, carry solo boats.



So I must rely on the kindness of friends and strangers willing to let me try out their boats. I have been very fortunate this way and have been able to rule out a number of boats, but haven’t been able to shout “this is the one!” yet.



If anyone Magic owners out there are contemplating a trip to Vancouver island…

Noooooo don’t say that!!!
Ok, maybe I have my hopes set a little high with the Splitrock. When you say “not suitable for very wavy open water” what exactly are you talking about here. I’m talking 3 foot waves and under most of the time.



The Mist is really obsolete? I wondered about that. Mostly the lack of rocker, especially differential rocker, which seems to make a world of difference to how a boat paddles in my limited experience.



So what DO you like about Bluewater?



Also, I’m not sure I get your comment about Wenonah. The Prism is the only boat that really seems to fit the bill for me. The Wilderness is a tripper, the Argosy is a downwater boat, I have the Solo Plus, The Voyager I have paddled and is more boat than I need (so am assuming the Encounter would be too), and the others seem too far away from what I am looking at. I have not looked at the Vagabond for awhile…

Nibble on my Osprey?
You’ll be picking kevlar from between your teeth for weeks!



I’ve only sat in my Osprey a few times and not for long. I simply prefer kneeling. I’ll speculate that lowering the seat and adding a good foot brace would go a long way to making any canoe more sit friendly.

From my knees the Osprey seems quite content in 3’ waves.

Mist is relative to David Yosts
Autumn Mist which was a classic tripping desing from the 1980’s. Obsolete is in the eye of the beholder but its a “go straight” boat for sure.



The Vagabond will turn better than the Prism. I just wish Vag wasnt so beamy. I got to try both on the same windy whitecappy day.

osprey
in response to some of the followup comments on the Osprey…



Yes, on your knees in big waves the boat is awesome. I have had mine out on days that were probably not really “for canoeing” days with high winds and big waves steepened by current opposing the wind. The boat does better than any other in these conditions if you are kneeling. Great secondary stability in big beam waves, and while the wind turn it a bit, the boat’s maneuverability allows you to counteract the wind and turn / maintain the boat in any direction you want to go.



I find it okay for sitting actually. I can paddle sitting pretty comfortably in calm water. I think that a foot bar makes a difference for this. I can get probalby 5 strokes on a side when sitting prior to switching.



And I would agree that it is a super efficient boat. Paddling at normal touring speeds is pretty much effortless. Too much so for me actually because I just don’t feel like I am getting a good enough workout! Adding gear for a trip changes this of course.



The Osprey really is a pretty great boat. I think it is one of the best “kneeling” boats out there for general use. For me peronally it is the best for this application after having owned and tried lots and lots of solo canoes.



Actually one boat that is not mentioned that is awesome for the application you want: a Sawyer Loon…if you can find one (used). It, along with the other Kruger boats, is one of the finest boats for speed and rough water ability. But…it’s kind of a different breeed as a decked canoe.





Matt


I think the Prism might be a very good
choice. I’m tall and fairly heavy, so the Voyageur might be OK.



My comments about the Splitrock are based on its lines, which suggest a boat designed for speed on relatively flat water. Note the bulgy, low wingy things.



Our Bluewater was made before the sale to Scott. The craftsmanship is very good. My personal favorite of the Bluewater line is the 17’ Freedom. The Mist is OK for an old design, but I might rather have a Peterborough. It isn’t all about speed.

Good clarrification
Thanks for clarifying the sitting vs kneeling preference in calm vs winding condition. That makes sense.



I also liked what you said about “normal touring speeds.” this is a good point for me to muse on. Most of my paddling is leisurely with bursts of effort to cross windy bays, etc. Sounds like for the most part the Osprey would work in those situations taking advantage of the theory that a shorter boat with less wetted surface is easier to move along at times of lower effort.



Questions:



Can you switch from sitting to kneeling on the water? Or is such a maneuver reserved for warm weather? :slight_smile:



At what point does the Osprey top out on speed? I’m afraid I don’t know speeds very well, not having a GPS to measure my own boats, but for example when I am paddling with a friend in his Rapidfire I will be able to keep up in my Spitfire just fine unless he decides to really pour on the juice. Even then I can sometimes keep up with him, as long as I work harder, but it seems that I’m pushing a bigger bow wake so I’m thinking that I’m actually wasting energy. Have you encountered this paddling the Osprey with other boats, and if so, which ones?


What about the Vagabond?
I was just looking at the differences between the Prism and the Vagabond. Two feet shorter, lower profile, but the width at waterline is identical, so that would be a lot less wetted surface. Wider at the gunwales, but an inch more narrow than my Solo Plus. It also has a little bit of rocker.



Thoughts?

Osprey Top End
I’ve done a few timed runs as I do not have a GPS either.

On quiet water with minimal wind I can sustain an average of 4 mph over 8 or more miles pretty effortlessly. I figure I must be up around 5 mph for some of that.

And how does that feel?
Does it feel like you are working pretty hard or just a good steady rhythm?

Not personally familiar with it. Prism
will be better for anyone hammering along open waters. Vagabond should be better for swamp cruising, twisty streams, easy ww. That’s just going by the numbers.



The Rendezvous has not been mentioned here. I tried it briefly, and found it decently fast and good-tracking on flatwater. It has enough rocker for most purposes, and is certainly a very good cruiser on class 1-2 (3) whitewater. I don’t know how it would behave on a whitecapped lake.



Eric Nyre is the local expert on the Rendezvous and on how to set it up so it does all it is capable of doing.

Paddled the Rendezvous and loved it but.
it is built for down river conditions and hence is heavy. A friend contacted Eric about getting a ultralight version made. We thought it we both ordered one together… so that is an option on the back burner right now. Gunwale and waterline widths are very similiar between the Rendezvous and the Vagabond, but Vagabond is a foot and a bit shorter and also lower on the water. Of course the hull shape is different, but it is part of what makes me wonder if the Vagabond might not be better suited to what I am looking for…

Vagabond and Rondezvous
Both are very different in their composite and Royalex versions, due to limitations in molding the Royalex. The composite versions have sharper entries, and narrower gunwale lines and paddle much better than the Royalex versions.

Hopefully Eric Nyre will chime in about the Rondezvous versions. It has too much rocker for my type of paddling, and requires lacks the tracking to go fast.

For your purposes I would go looking for a Wenonah C1W. Its fast and will handle big water. Its just very deep and hard to find. The Prism will do the duty, it is very versatile and forgiving. Not fast by Wenonah standards, but fast vs solos from anyone else.

Bill

Interesting, I wonder what a Rendezvous
would weigh in an ultralight layup. Any idea?



I’m thinking that the length of the Vagabond is about right and it has a lower profile than even the Rapidfire — so low windage, some rocker so a bit more maneuverable if perhaps a little slower than the Packer or Prism, less wetted surface than the Prism, and comes with that adjustable seat I like so much (same one I have in my Solo Plus). Seems like most people kind of dismiss the Vagabond – why is that?

because its the all purpose sloth
You will endure but not shine. I think its more for folk that dont worry about things like boat dimensions!



To even mention RapidFire with Vagabond is odd… Vag may be an all purpose boat but hardly exciting to anyone who has exposure to other solo boats.



That said if you can get a bargain on it, why worry? You will find out soon enough if it “floats your boat”

pretty effortless (NM)

The Vagabond is not bad IMO

– Last Updated: Nov-08-10 7:38 AM EST –

I've done a fair bit of paddling with a guy who owns one and usually paddles it with a double-bladed paddle.
We have traded off boats some. It may not be exciting if you want to heel and spin the boat a lot, but it doesn't sound like that is your plan.

"Wind and waves" is the kicker. When the wind comes up, you would like to have a boat with less sticking up out of the water to catch the wind. But with wind often comes waves, especially on big lakes, and then you want freeboard to keep the water out and for seaworthiness. I think to some extent, your choice will depend on your comfort level paddling in waves.

A boat with a downriver racing heritage might make sense. These tend to have more depth to shed water going through wave trains, but still have good speed. The Wenonah Jensen designed C1W was mentioned. Another is the Wenonah Advantage, which Wenonah will still make special order.

You might take a look at the Clipper Freedom. This is a fast boat, but it might not have enough depth for you to feel comfortable in waves. It has a sliding tractor seat that can be easily adjusted to one of three different levels. A tractor seat isn't the greatest for kneeling, but if you really wanted to do that, you could probably easily fit a webbed seat to the frame.

I agree with Tommy about the Osprey. That boat is really a pleasure to paddle at a very nice cruising speed and is very seaworthy. The Prism is a fast boat, but fairly deep, and with perhaps more volume than you require. The Rendezvous is a pretty large volume boat with more rocker than desirable for the use you describe.

You said you paddled the Wenonah Voyager. I assume you ruled it out. It certainly is a fast boat, but perhaps more boat than you would want for day trips. I have also experienced its tendency to lock onto a side wind, but I haven't paddled it enough to "figure it out".