Agree Solo Plus
I’m not quite as big as this paddler but being 6’2" and 290lbs I fit in my Solo Plus just fine. My seat is a sliding tractor seat so I don’t have to worry about breaking a seat hanger.
The boat works well in all types of water; lakes, rivers and streams. I was in a small stream (10ft wide)that fed a lake and I couldn’t turn around. I just got out of the boat, picked it up and turned it aroud.
I also use this boat with my kids in the tandem seats. This adds an extra 120 to 160lbs to the boat and it has no problems. It probably would swamp in windy conditions/waves but I won’t be out there in those conditions. The boat does have problems with wind but a quick trim adj and it is manageable.
Brian
Some Minor Comments
In general, I agree that a 13-foot boat will be too “wallowy”, though I suspect the Old Town Pack is about as close to your “stated” specifications as anything, and it might work okay if you don’t carry much stuff with you. I like the looks of that new Wenonah Fusion for use by a beginning canoer (but I got a kick out of the spell-check generated typo in their description: Steering with a rudder is a “cinch”, not a “synch”).
Regarding 14- to 15-foot boats, I would add the Wenonah Vagabond to the list. The Vagabond is a fantastic boat for general-purpose solo canoeing, and it is very fast compared to most solo boats made of Royalex. I paddled mine a short distance one time with a passenger, so my total on-board weight was near 300 pounds, and it did not feel one bit overloaded (even though it was very out-of-trim since it’s not made for two people). If maximizing cruising speed and distance is more important than precision manuevering or dealing with choppy conditions, the Vagabond would be a good boat. There would not be a “lot” of extra capacity for camping gear when carrying a 330-pound paddler, but for daytripping I think it would work. If handling more-choppy conditions is needed, my first step up from the Vagabond would be the Mohawk Oddysey 14. Beyond that, some of the the bigger boats already listed would probably be even better for big loads and choppy conditions, with the exception of the Supernova, but only because I don’t believe the Supernova is a good “first boat” for a beginner and because it would be a very poor choice for paddling with a double-blade paddle (it’s also darned heavy when made of Royalex. Mine “feels” like it weighs about 70 pounds in comparision to another boat I have which is about 67 pounds).
Love my MR Guide, but for him, the
Supernova might be better. The Guide/Freedom Solo is narrow and can feel edgy in crosscurrents. Not that there’s anything wrong with edgy.
Bill Mason
Bill Mason was a Canadian fellow who wrote a couple of canoeing books and made many films.
He was not big at all, weighing about 140 if I recall correctly. Nevertheless, he stated in his books/films that even when paddling solo, he liked a canoe to be at least 16’, as shorter ones start to feel dumpy/sluggish.
Now, he was writing before the days of dedicated solo boats, and certainly a flashfire wouldn’t feel dumpy to him. However, I am sure you would prefer a bigger boat. I owned a Bell Yellowstone for about a month - sold it because with my 190, plus gear, I didn’t think it was big enough to handle conditions.
Another post reminded me - a Mad River Courier would be a good boat you might find used.
I have a Mowhawk Odyssey
It’s 14’2", 56lbs outfitted with backband and footpegs for paddling seated, with a double blade. I just finished a trip where my total load was approx 350lbs. It handles better with a load and I am able to keep up with tandem canoes. We paddle the types of water you list; some of the streams we paddle are only 15’wide. It tracks well on our local small lake, even in 20mph wind with chop. My canoe is a suitable combination of ‘stability’ and manuverability for people with some physical limitations. If you can kneel, you might like the SuperNova better.
I am shorter than you (5’5")and use a 230cm paddle to give me better reach and leverage. Getting in and out of my boat is easier when I use trekking poles to lean on and saves my paddles from damage if I lose my balance. It also helps me lower myself more gently onto the seat. Mowhawk seats and hangers are strong, but you can damage the gunwales if you land too hard. (I haven’t done that, but I’ve seen it happen)
I would definitely consider a 14’-15’ boat. They distribute the weight over the length so that the width can be less. That means it should take less effort to paddle and are generally more stable than a shorter boat of the same width. If you’re not portaging much, the few extra pounds is not an issue. Also, it’s worth spending a couple hundred more to own a boat that works well for you.
Happy boat hunting! Paddling is a great way to exercise and relax.
Vagabond would probably work
I weigh only 225 (you can’t imagine how good the “only” felt when I typed that), but I paddled my wife’s Vagabond with a 7 gallon water container and about another 50 lbs. of camping gear for a couple of hours when we traded boats on a trip. That totals over 330 lbs. and the boat felt OK–it was on a river without any rapids whatsoever. It’s 14’.
I also have a SuperNova and it would swallow up that weight, along with a week’s camping gear, and ask for more. But I agree with the poster above, you would have to be pretty determined and patient to learn to paddle in a SuperNova.
Just not sure
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 1:11 PM EST –
what to do. I'm looking at this Kay-Noe at Dicks. $350.00 sounds like a good place to start, but don't want to hate it as soon as I buy it. OT tells me that it's a remake of their Discovery 119K, but made of single layer polyethelene. It weighs 43lbs. Looks like the OT Pack which has a capacity of 578lbs. I thought about taking out the seat and sitting on the floor to reduce my center of gravity, and use a 2-blade paddle. I'm probably not looking for the canoe that I will die with, but also not one that just will not work. Also, not looking to go on long trips with it at this point. Just something to have some fun in and learn how to paddle correctly. Would the Kay-Noe not work for that?
Would love…
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 1:52 PM EST –
Would love to have sloopsailor see this thread & give some feedback about what to expect when an inexperienced, "heavy duty" paddler, climbs aboard a Supernova the first few times. Can you say photo op!
No doubt it will haul more gear than a sane person really needs.
Climbing aboard an empty Supernova for the first time reminded me quite a bit of the first time I climbed aboard my Mad River Outrage X. Don't view either boat as ideal for the inexperienced; unless they are highly motivated to learn.
BOB
Problem is…
A solo canoe with enough volume for 330 lbs. plus whatever, is probably gonna be too wide to paddle a double bladed very efficiently, i.e. lots of horizontal, not much vertical. I don’t think a first solo canoe should be a heavy money investment as some folks just don’t stick with it. Maybe a Mohawk Solo 14 would be a good idea. That said, I recommend learning to paddle it with a single blade. The learning curve is steeper but the reward at the end much greater.
If he can kneel, a single blade
is better in the long run. But, if like me, he can’t kneel, a double blade makes up for the lack of mobility. My Odyssey is not too wide for a 230cm double blade and I can get a vertical stroke, even at my height(5’5"). I’m no white water animal, but I rock dodge in class I-II, surf, ferry, eddy out with very little lean. Some of us have to adapt things to get on the water. It’s well worth it.
If…
Just for the sake of argument:
If a 6 foot 3 inch tall paddler, weighing 330 pounds kneels in any canoe; where do you suppose that paddler’s center of gravity will be?
BOB
Bob
you’re saying that won’t work, right? I could for a while, but I’m not going in with the idea that’s how it’s going to be all of the time. As in the above post, I’m thinking of taking the seat out and sitting on a pad on the bottom. Does that make any sense? I may go 14ft for a canoe, but it’s not really what I want to do. At 50, I’m looking for something lighter and shorter to car-top if need be. Actually, I feel that I get around pretty good for my age and weight, but I’m looking for something as fun as it can be.
rec kayaks
If you’re thinking of sitting on the bottom and paddling with a double blade, your range of boats widens considerably. You can spend a lot of money and get an ultralight, very sweet boat from Placid Boatworks, or spend not much at all and get a plastic rec kayak from any number of manufacturers.
In the latter case, it would be difficult, though probably not impossible, to rig a higher seat for sitting/kneeling.
– Mark
Length, Weight, Age, Kneeling
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 2:24 PM EST –
The majority of the frequent posters here are pretty close to your age, and if you ask for tips on loading a boat on your car roof, you'll get plenty. When it comes to loading a boat on your roof, length is not too important, and surprisingly, a longer length can actually be easier (for boats of the same weight) when it comes to techniques for lifting and loading (I won't clutter this post with the reasons right now, especially since it's such a minor difference). If you get around pretty well "for your age", a 50-pound boat will probably be quite manageable, once you figure out a "good" method for getting yourself under the boat for carrying it, and a good method for loading it on your car. A lighter boat is always easier to handle of course, but it usually means paying more. Two boats recommended so far which I have a lot of experience paddling and loading on car roofs are the Vagabond (made of Royalex) and the Odyssey 14, both of which are less than 50 pounds. I'm not particularly strong (6'2" and only 167 pounds, so there is not a big load of muscle here), and I find both boats very easy to carry and load.
As for kneeling, the main advantage is that the point of support is on the bottom of the hull and wide, rather than well above it and narrow, NOT that your center of gravity is lower (because your center of gravity will actually be higher when kneeling than when sitting *on the seat* (kneeling is done with your butt against the seat, with the seat a few inches higher than what's used for sitting). Kneeling eliminates that "pivot point" right on the seat, and thus eliminates the ability of the boat to tip "out from underneath" you (this is a big advantage in waves, and especially when suddenly encountering a cross-current). It also "connects" you to the boat more positively for doing strong maneuvers. So yes, kneeling is best for overall boat-handling, but sitting works fine for lots of people, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
Bill did not travel light
he had his paint kit and a canvas tent etc and being Canadian, there are few dedicated solos in Canada.
Plus he liked to run big water as some places had no portages. One of his favorite haunts was Lake Superior and thats big water for most solos. A completely different set of circumstances.
In Canada dedicated solos are still not the norm. Soloing tandems is.
we dont know where you are
but check out Hornbeck boats. They have a variety of pack boats; canoes meant to be double bladed, lightweight.
Still waiting on the WildFire XL.
osta.doc
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 2:25 PM EST –
I hear where you're coming from.........
I am not advocating that you sit, or kneel.
Whatever works for you is what will make you happy.
BUT sitting in the bilge of a canoe will certainly be a consideration with regard to boat suitability.
If you are, in fact, an inexperienced paddler; sitting in the bilge of the boat(with a back band for back support & sitting on a pad for comfort), as opposed to sitting on a seat, or kneeling may be best for you. It will most certainly put your center of gravity lower, and will likely make you feel more comfortable in whatever boat you choose.
On the other hand, when you talk about sitting in the bilge; some of the canoes that have been suggested, start to fall a few steps down the list as far as suitability goes. A notable example in my opinion would be the Nova Craft Supernova. I can't imagine trying to paddle one of those with a kayak paddle, while sitting in the bilge. I don't think you could even view the river in front of your bow, and your hands, and/or paddle shaft would probably be making a lot of contact with the gunwale. I think an inexperienced paddler would spend a lot of their time doing 360 degree spins if they chose to use a kayak paddle & sat in the bilge of that particular boat while on moving water.
It is my opinion that a 13 foot boat(I don't care what make or model) will not provide you with enough volume.
That is my main point.
Again, you may want to seriously consider buying used.
I wouldn't be in too big a hurry to purchase any canoe I hadn't test paddled, if I were you.Talk to some people at the shops, email the manufacturers with your quest, check out the pnet product reviews, and continue to do some more research before you buy.
There is a good boat out there for you; it is probably not going to fall into your lap, and even after you find it, you may have to adapt/refine your requirements.
There is no one perfect canoe for every lake, river, or creek, and not all boats are suitable for a 330, or a 100 pound paddler. A canoe that a highly experienced paddler thinks is Numero Uno, will be a pain in the butt for a rookie. Put someone who is used to paddling a Bell Flashfire into a Old Town Pack & they may fall asleep going downstream.
BOB
Used?
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 4:02 PM EST –
It wouldn't bother me to buy used. One of the problems is finding somewhere to paddle different canoes. Heck, in Ohio, there aren't many places that even carry canoes. Mostly what you see is kayaks. I'm thinking about going over to the West. PA Solo gig just to watch and look at some solo canoes. But, I would kinda' like to get one in the water yet this year. If you buy off of the classified ads here, do you use a freight company to get it to your house if it's too far to drive to?
I have purposely stayed out of this
debate but now feel I can constructively add to it. I have bought and sold canoes off of P.Net, Ebay and Craigslist. In my opinion (unless you get one heck of a deal!) having a canoe crated, wrapped and trucked to you from any distance is cost prohibitive (in addition I have heard horror stories about shipping damage.)
I would look for used canoes within driving distance. Another option is to see if any P.netters are planning a paddling trip near you and may have room for an extra boat. You might be able to get it that way for the price of gas and a small handling fee.
I am almost 62 years old and weigh in just under 200 pounds. My first dedicated solo boat was a OT Pack (for the same reasons you state - weight and ease of handling.) I sold it after one season because I found it to cramped and too slow and purchased a Wenonah Vagabond in Royalex used from P.Net ads. I still have the Vagabond and use it quite a lot for fishing. However I found I wanted a boat with more glide and better speed for tripping so I bought a Bell Magic Kev-Lite (used off of P.net). I used it for two seasons and decided I wanted a hull very similar to the Magic but in a more sturdy lay-up. I sold the Magic (to some one from Ohio who drove to central Illinois to pick it up) and ordered a new Hemlock Peregrine in Premium+ lay-up. While much more expensive than you wish to spend, the Peregrine is the perfect boat FOR ME. It is 15’9" long and weighs in at 34 pounds.
My point is not to convince you to by a Peregrine or any high end composite boat but to say that if you get a boat and really enjoy paddling, you are very likely to upgrade and change your use and your needs.
Try a boat if possible before you purchase, do your research as the.bob said, and shop around for used. And don’t be surprised if you end up with more then one boat over time.
No sometimes we make friends on
– Last Updated: Aug-28-08 5:14 PM EST –
p.net and someone is going your way.
Surely you will find eventually about Ohio..there are an arkload of canoe paddlers. I dont happen to live there so I dont know where they do their buying. I dont believe anyone in Ohio has had to use a truck.
www.freestylecanoeing.com
An instructional event for beginners and advanced canoeists is Midwest FreeSyle Symposium. We will have lots of canoes to try. Thats Sept 5-7.
The SW Pa Rendezvous will have more tripping boats and hopefully some pack boats(double blade canoes)
Dont forget the opportunity at Raystown too.
You happen to be lucky to live in an area with so many solo canoe events. Dont rush your decision..try try try.