what to do. I'm looking at this Kay-Noe at Dicks. $350.00 sounds like a good place to start, but don't want to hate it as soon as I buy it. OT tells me that it's a remake of their Discovery 119K, but made of single layer polyethelene. It weighs 43lbs. Looks like the OT Pack which has a capacity of 578lbs. I thought about taking out the seat and sitting on the floor to reduce my center of gravity, and use a 2-blade paddle. I'm probably not looking for the canoe that I will die with, but also not one that just will not work. Also, not looking to go on long trips with it at this point. Just something to have some fun in and learn how to paddle correctly. Would the Kay-Noe not work for that?
Would love to have sloopsailor see this thread & give some feedback about what to expect when an inexperienced, "heavy duty" paddler, climbs aboard a Supernova the first few times. Can you say photo op!
No doubt it will haul more gear than a sane person really needs.
Climbing aboard an empty Supernova for the first time reminded me quite a bit of the first time I climbed aboard my Mad River Outrage X. Don't view either boat as ideal for the inexperienced; unless they are highly motivated to learn.
Problem is… A solo canoe with enough volume for 330 lbs. plus whatever, is probably gonna be too wide to paddle a double bladed very efficiently, i.e. lots of horizontal, not much vertical. I don’t think a first solo canoe should be a heavy money investment as some folks just don’t stick with it. Maybe a Mohawk Solo 14 would be a good idea. That said, I recommend learning to paddle it with a single blade. The learning curve is steeper but the reward at the end much greater.
If he can kneel, a single blade is better in the long run. But, if like me, he can’t kneel, a double blade makes up for the lack of mobility. My Odyssey is not too wide for a 230cm double blade and I can get a vertical stroke, even at my height(5’5"). I’m no white water animal, but I rock dodge in class I-II, surf, ferry, eddy out with very little lean. Some of us have to adapt things to get on the water. It’s well worth it.
Bob you’re saying that won’t work, right? I could for a while, but I’m not going in with the idea that’s how it’s going to be all of the time. As in the above post, I’m thinking of taking the seat out and sitting on a pad on the bottom. Does that make any sense? I may go 14ft for a canoe, but it’s not really what I want to do. At 50, I’m looking for something lighter and shorter to car-top if need be. Actually, I feel that I get around pretty good for my age and weight, but I’m looking for something as fun as it can be.
rec kayaks If you’re thinking of sitting on the bottom and paddling with a double blade, your range of boats widens considerably. You can spend a lot of money and get an ultralight, very sweet boat from Placid Boatworks, or spend not much at all and get a plastic rec kayak from any number of manufacturers.
In the latter case, it would be difficult, though probably not impossible, to rig a higher seat for sitting/kneeling.
The majority of the frequent posters here are pretty close to your age, and if you ask for tips on loading a boat on your car roof, you'll get plenty. When it comes to loading a boat on your roof, length is not too important, and surprisingly, a longer length can actually be easier (for boats of the same weight) when it comes to techniques for lifting and loading (I won't clutter this post with the reasons right now, especially since it's such a minor difference). If you get around pretty well "for your age", a 50-pound boat will probably be quite manageable, once you figure out a "good" method for getting yourself under the boat for carrying it, and a good method for loading it on your car. A lighter boat is always easier to handle of course, but it usually means paying more. Two boats recommended so far which I have a lot of experience paddling and loading on car roofs are the Vagabond (made of Royalex) and the Odyssey 14, both of which are less than 50 pounds. I'm not particularly strong (6'2" and only 167 pounds, so there is not a big load of muscle here), and I find both boats very easy to carry and load.
As for kneeling, the main advantage is that the point of support is on the bottom of the hull and wide, rather than well above it and narrow, NOT that your center of gravity is lower (because your center of gravity will actually be higher when kneeling than when sitting *on the seat* (kneeling is done with your butt against the seat, with the seat a few inches higher than what's used for sitting). Kneeling eliminates that "pivot point" right on the seat, and thus eliminates the ability of the boat to tip "out from underneath" you (this is a big advantage in waves, and especially when suddenly encountering a cross-current). It also "connects" you to the boat more positively for doing strong maneuvers. So yes, kneeling is best for overall boat-handling, but sitting works fine for lots of people, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
Bill did not travel light he had his paint kit and a canvas tent etc and being Canadian, there are few dedicated solos in Canada.
Plus he liked to run big water as some places had no portages. One of his favorite haunts was Lake Superior and thats big water for most solos. A completely different set of circumstances.
In Canada dedicated solos are still not the norm. Soloing tandems is.
I am not advocating that you sit, or kneel.
Whatever works for you is what will make you happy.
BUT sitting in the bilge of a canoe will certainly be a consideration with regard to boat suitability.
If you are, in fact, an inexperienced paddler; sitting in the bilge of the boat(with a back band for back support & sitting on a pad for comfort), as opposed to sitting on a seat, or kneeling may be best for you. It will most certainly put your center of gravity lower, and will likely make you feel more comfortable in whatever boat you choose.
On the other hand, when you talk about sitting in the bilge; some of the canoes that have been suggested, start to fall a few steps down the list as far as suitability goes. A notable example in my opinion would be the Nova Craft Supernova. I can't imagine trying to paddle one of those with a kayak paddle, while sitting in the bilge. I don't think you could even view the river in front of your bow, and your hands, and/or paddle shaft would probably be making a lot of contact with the gunwale. I think an inexperienced paddler would spend a lot of their time doing 360 degree spins if they chose to use a kayak paddle & sat in the bilge of that particular boat while on moving water.
It is my opinion that a 13 foot boat(I don't care what make or model) will not provide you with enough volume.
That is my main point.
Again, you may want to seriously consider buying used.
I wouldn't be in too big a hurry to purchase any canoe I hadn't test paddled, if I were you.Talk to some people at the shops, email the manufacturers with your quest, check out the pnet product reviews, and continue to do some more research before you buy.
There is a good boat out there for you; it is probably not going to fall into your lap, and even after you find it, you may have to adapt/refine your requirements.
There is no one perfect canoe for every lake, river, or creek, and not all boats are suitable for a 330, or a 100 pound paddler. A canoe that a highly experienced paddler thinks is Numero Uno, will be a pain in the butt for a rookie. Put someone who is used to paddling a Bell Flashfire into a Old Town Pack & they may fall asleep going downstream.
It wouldn't bother me to buy used. One of the problems is finding somewhere to paddle different canoes. Heck, in Ohio, there aren't many places that even carry canoes. Mostly what you see is kayaks. I'm thinking about going over to the West. PA Solo gig just to watch and look at some solo canoes. But, I would kinda' like to get one in the water yet this year. If you buy off of the classified ads here, do you use a freight company to get it to your house if it's too far to drive to?
I have purposely stayed out of this debate but now feel I can constructively add to it. I have bought and sold canoes off of P.Net, Ebay and Craigslist. In my opinion (unless you get one heck of a deal!) having a canoe crated, wrapped and trucked to you from any distance is cost prohibitive (in addition I have heard horror stories about shipping damage.)
I would look for used canoes within driving distance. Another option is to see if any P.netters are planning a paddling trip near you and may have room for an extra boat. You might be able to get it that way for the price of gas and a small handling fee.
I am almost 62 years old and weigh in just under 200 pounds. My first dedicated solo boat was a OT Pack (for the same reasons you state - weight and ease of handling.) I sold it after one season because I found it to cramped and too slow and purchased a Wenonah Vagabond in Royalex used from P.Net ads. I still have the Vagabond and use it quite a lot for fishing. However I found I wanted a boat with more glide and better speed for tripping so I bought a Bell Magic Kev-Lite (used off of P.net). I used it for two seasons and decided I wanted a hull very similar to the Magic but in a more sturdy lay-up. I sold the Magic (to some one from Ohio who drove to central Illinois to pick it up) and ordered a new Hemlock Peregrine in Premium+ lay-up. While much more expensive than you wish to spend, the Peregrine is the perfect boat FOR ME. It is 15’9" long and weighs in at 34 pounds.
My point is not to convince you to by a Peregrine or any high end composite boat but to say that if you get a boat and really enjoy paddling, you are very likely to upgrade and change your use and your needs.
Try a boat if possible before you purchase, do your research as the.bob said, and shop around for used. And don’t be surprised if you end up with more then one boat over time.
Surely you will find eventually about Ohio..there are an arkload of canoe paddlers. I dont happen to live there so I dont know where they do their buying. I dont believe anyone in Ohio has had to use a truck.
www.freestylecanoeing.com
An instructional event for beginners and advanced canoeists is Midwest FreeSyle Symposium. We will have lots of canoes to try. Thats Sept 5-7.
The SW Pa Rendezvous will have more tripping boats and hopefully some pack boats(double blade canoes)
Dont forget the opportunity at Raystown too.
You happen to be lucky to live in an area with so many solo canoe events. Dont rush your decision..try try try.
Not sure if its a Hornbeck, as the Wildfire itself is Placid Boatworks design (in simplest terms - let's leave that discussion on the other thread) - but Bell had planned a Yellowstone Solo XL - the name was scrapped for the RockStar instead, and was shown at the summer OR show in Salt Lake.
Basic idea's there - solo canoe, shorter, lighter, built for a bigger paddler...Dave Kruger isn't a little guy, and basically designed a Yellowstone Solo that he could paddle comfortably with gear. Problem is - most dealers won't have one until spring, so it doesn't solve your problem of wanting a boat this fall. I think they also went composite only on that one so far, but I'm out of that loop nowadays.
There are a few designers and companies wanting a better bigger guy solo, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if a Wildfire XL ended up as someone's solo - its a great design and someone would do well to have it scaled up for a larger paddler.
Hornbeck has a couple of boats that would fit the bill - 12 Jack is the first one that came to mind, as well as a solo that transitions to tandem, 14' I beleive.
Wenonah Wilderness A Wilderness would be a great boat for your size and usage requirements. Easily double blade paddled with the seat in it’s lowest position, stable, and maneuverable. 44lbs in Royalex, 15’4". It would also give you room to grow, as far as paddling skills are concerned, as you get more seat time. I think you will have a difficult time finding a boat 13 ft or under that would give you reasonable performance. Where are you located?
But you may want to consider 14 feet, maybe 15 ft. My (used) Osprey is 15 ft and I've had a 260 lb paddler in it, no problem, double-blading. I've also paddled it loaded for camping in choppy water, no problem.
It's fiberglass and weighs about 50 lbs, maybe a few lbs. more with the footbrace setup that was added to it.
The boat does fine on small creeks as well as bigger water too.
Thanks to you all ! I really appreciate all of your advice. I’ve got plenty to think about. I’m going to try to take my time and make an educated choice, but I can’t promise anything. If anyone thinks of something else, please, let me hear it. I’m still listening. Thanks again.