Come prepare, gather info at Canoecopia
You can sit in the boats at Canoecopia and pepper knowledgeable people with questions. Be prepared for them to ask you questions, too, about how you want to use your kayak. As for test paddling, my understanding is that there’s a fairly liberal return/exchange policy if you buy a boat a Canoecopia, then don’t like it once you get a chance to paddle it. I also second the earlier comment about talking to Danny Mongno of Werner Paddles and/or going to his presentation. Too many people put a lot of money into a boat and cheap out on the paddle. You need a good, lightweight paddle, especially if you are paddling for hours.
Read my first point
If you review my first point you;ll see I recommend honestly assessing what you want to do.
Second, It’s not productive to tell someone that they have to start in a small boat then move onto a larger boat. With the shorter boat a paddler will expend more energy to maintain a pace that longer boats will be able to maintain with little energy. Additionally, new paddlers get frustrated with that small boat first nonsense. Figure out what you really intend to do and purchase a boat that suits those needs and you size/fit.
True
It’s true what you say about the crossover from friction to wave drag in the 3-4 mph speed range. At high speeds, a long boat is faster. However, it’s my experience that almost no one cruises above that range for any length of time, particularly a small beginner. Sure, an experienced open-water paddling group may do that on a run up the coast or to some offshore islands, but I don’t think that’s who we’re talking about here.
Guideboatguy’s post below and Brian’s article that I linked above explain this very well.
WS Piccolo in Oconomoc
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 12:17 PM EST –
If you are anywhere near this used kayak on Craiglist near Madison, it would be worthwhile seeing if you could test paddle it. It's an excellent quality small person boat if you can fit in it and they are including a paddle and PFD for $450 (though the paddle looks like a cheapy, but for the extra $150 in your budget you could buy a quality paddle and keep the cheapie as a backup spare):
http://madison.craigslist.org/boa/2824376081.html
Read the reviews by P.net users:
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=361
These have been out of production for several years but have held their value because of their unique size and performance. You could easily resell it if you wanted something different. It would fit you nicely and is fairly light and quite fast.
More info
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 1:09 PM EST –
The Piccolo is a great idea - more info here:
http://www.wildernesssystems.com/content/wildernesssystems.com/assets/page/2001/piccolo.jpg
Also, there's another discontinued model that is ideal for the smaller paddler, the Tchaika:
http://www.wildernesssystems.com/content/wildernesssystems.com/assets/page/2001/taikia.jpg
One more important consideration
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 2:15 PM EST –
I'm back on my soap box against those who automatically preach about the value of a long boat. The original poster has not yet said what kind of waters she'll be paddling on. If she's going to be on some smaller rivers, all I can say is that some of the best kayak paddlers I know look very inept in such conditions in their long boats. A 13-footer will not become a bumbling barge a on a small river that has trees in the water. And of course, considering the earlier point, so well described in the article linked by Carldelo, it will paddle with greater ease when used within the range of speeds that most people actually travel. Some people probably SHOULD start out in a long boat, but to provide that as general advice to a beginner without knowing any important details is very likely to be wrong.
User says…
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 2:47 PM EST –
Profile says Wisconsin, profile says slow rivers and lakes, response from her above says: "Somewhat long distances as in being out on the water for 5 hours a day on a fairly calm water lake or slow river (not looking to kayak in rapids or the ocean or anything like that)... I'm nervous that a 10 ft kayak would just have too horrible of a tracking speed and wear me out after a couple of hours..."
She also mentioned being out of a paddle and someone smoking her bunch in a longer boat. I didn't pull the clip, but it didn't sound like she was averse to ultimately being able to keep up.
The 5 hour part got my attention. So maybe she finds that is too much, but she still wants to do a long day. And at that kind of time out, someone is likely to get further from shore, for example going for crossings, than the paddler who is ready to throw in the towel after an hour or so. Also more likely to get caught in unexpected weather. "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition... (thus dating myself)."
There are new paddlers who come in and sound hesitant from the start, who may never do more than paddle 10 feet from the shore every other weekend for an hour. The posts from Michelle thus far don't read quite like that.
I am not advocating a full out sea kayak myself here, but I also don't think it should be ruled out if that's the deal she finds at the event coming up. As to your small friend and the Looksha... suffice to say that if it was a really small woman I am still scratching my head about what model of the Looksha anyone could have recommended for them. I know and respect the Looksha line, but if there's an older model out there that is remotely well sized for a 5'1" woman I can't figure out what it is. Maybe the newer 12i, but that's just a 12 ft boat so I doubt it is what you were talking about.
But in all fairness to whoever sold her that boat, you have to be there to understand the full dynamics of why a new paddler walks off the lot with a particular boat. People new to sea kayaks - including some WW paddlers I've known - have a variety of reasons where they end up with a boat that is a good bit taller and bigger around them than they'll prefer after a year of paddling. It is possible that your friend was anxious about stability and could not be talked into leaving the outfitter with the more "tippy" feeling boat that they may have tried to get her into. Or - they took the short cut of just putting her into something comfortably huge because it'd be a fast sale.
Quick Reply
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 4:18 PM EST –
Regarding paddling in "slow rivers", I stand by what I already said. A great many of our slow rivers are sheer hell for someone in a sea kayak. On open rivers without the trees, a sea kayak isn't so bad, but to me they still look pretty awkward on the curves. And people in really skinny boats have a terrible time finding places on the river where they can even get in or out of the cockpit. They always need help from another boater when the banks are steep, which gets old. A fairly "basic" kayak is more river-friendly.
Regarding the OP being "smoked" by someone in a "much longer boat", she actually said nothing about the other boat's length. She only said she was passed by someone in a sink who was paddling with ease. She was on a tandem SOT and it's worth remembering that SOTs are notorious for being "lead sleds" (and yes I know there are fast SOTs, but here in Wisconsin I've yet to see any kind except the crappy barges). It might have even been a rental and they were given overly long paddles (which increase the effort needed for a given degree of propulsive power). There's not much we know about that situation.
Regarding her desire to paddle for 5 hours or so, I'd be repeating myself to explain why a long boat is not necessarily the best choice in that situation. The third paragraph of the article linked by Carldelo explains the logic of why a 13-foot boat makes better use of the paddler's energy when moving at an average person's normal cruising speed than anything I've written so far. And going "farther from shore" or doing "crossings" on such a long trip is just projecting a sea-kayaker's viewpoint on the situation and has nothing to do with the kinds of water mentioned so far.
Regarding my friend in the Looksha, you are right that it is simply the wrong boat for her. It's just too big. She bought it as a complete beginner as her first boat, and did so because she was told it would allow her to keep up with others. Clearly the advice she got was wrong, and clearly she should have done more research, but it's that old problem that when you "don't know what you don't know", you also don't know what questions to ask. But in all fairness, the experienced paddlers who told her she "needed" such a boat were giving advice that was based on half-logic, not well-reasoned logic. There is no getting around the fact that at speeds of 3 or 4 mph, nearly any 13-foot boat will move through the water with less effort than a 16-foot boat, and the article mentioned above explains why all the subtleties of hull design in the world can't change the reasons why that is so. One really needs to be going faster than that on a regular basis, and have the strength to do so (remember, 2x the additional energy is needed for each additional 1 mph of speed) to justify something longer. The longer boat might be better for the original poster, but there isn't any info so far that makes it clear that this is so. That's the only reason I'm suggesting that advice to "go long" be given with all due qualifiers rather than be provided as if it's necessarily the best choice.
For a first boat…
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 5:02 PM EST –
cheap is good. She will likely run into a scad of 12 to 14 ft boats used and cheap because that is so much of what gets sold to first time paddlers.
But width matters a huge amount too. I don't know how tall you are, but at 5'3.5" I can verify that the half inch of diff in my shorter boat makes a noticeable diff in how easy it is to get a good bite over the course of a paddle. And I know from bike measurements that my torso and arms run a little tall for that height for a female.
The OPer is over 2 inches shorter than me. She has to think harder about avoiding beat up knuckles than either you or I. And there is not much way of assuring that the narrower boats she finds at this event will be of a certain length.
I don't see anyone here advising that she HAS to go out and get a 16 plus ft boat. But if that's the one where she doesn't need kevlar knuckle protectors to paddle, there's no reason to run away from it either.
As to your friend and the Looksha, like I said it is hard to be sure what happened unless you were there when she bought. Even with the limited times I've done safety for demo days, I've seen more new paddlers walk away from the right boat despite good advice than pick it. I have no doubt that she got general advice that longer would track better or whatever, but I am hard pressed to believe that the full length Looksha you are likely talking about was the only boat that she could have tried out. It just may have been the only longer one that didn't make her nervous. A boat like the Avocet LV mentioned above for example would be an entirely different first experience, but not a comfortable one for most new paddlers.
Not my experince
Well I owned a Conduit 13 for about a week. Bought it at Dicks sporting goods. I took it back. It 27 inches wide and has a pretty large cockpit. From my paddling with it useing a nice easy paddle stroke it would go about 3 mph. If I paddled real hard I could get it up to 5.5 mph according to my GPS. But its cruise speed was right at 3mph any faster and effort had to go way up.
Now with that same easy paddle stroke my Eddyline Nighthawk 16 which is 16 feet long 22 inch wide cruises at 4.2 mph. Same amount of effort I used on the 13 foot Conduit. So from my limited experience the long sleeker kayak goes faster with same effort. Paddle real hard in Nighthawk I can get up in the 8 to 9mph range.
So if 3mph is ok then the Conduit 13 can do that. Its hatches stayed dry but again I didnt have the kayak long. I thought it was to slow.
Well
– Last Updated: Feb-01-12 5:23 PM EST –
Post deleted, as I just remembered the OP was looking at the Conduit you mention in your post, so it is definitely on point. I guess I ruled out that boat as an option so quickly that I plumb forgot she mentioned it. But I definitely agree with you that the Conduit looks like a terrible choice. But I still think a well-designed 13' or 14' boat would be a good choice for the OP.
Even for her size, she really, if
possible needs to at least sit in a boat. Then try it on the water.
I have a Necky Chatham 16 and a friend that weighs less than me tried to sit in it. Unfortunately, she carried much of her weight in her hips.
As far as a long boat on some rivers, one really needs to have quick skills for turning. An eddie can catch one off guard, especially a newbie, very quickly. It only takes a slight bit of distraction to tip over.
Personally, if I had it to do over again, I would have started with at 12 or 13 foot boat instead of the 9’6" that I did. I tired of it within two years. Oh how we get old too soon, and smart too late.
Remember, no two bodies have the same dimensional lengths in the arms, legs, torso, etc.
Best of luck in your search.
PICCOLO PERFECT!
You guys…I think I found the PERFECT kayak for myself on Craigslist. I really wanted to wait until March to go to Madison to test some out, but this kayak has gotten praised reviews. Its 21.5 W, 13.6 L, 9" Depth. Its for a kid (or small adult…perfect for me since i’m only 5’1 and 105 lbs!). What do you guys think?!
THANK YOU!
Thank you so much for this informative post. It never even crossed my mind that it takes more effort to KEEP a long boat up to speed. I pretty much have my mind set on a 12-13 footer. While browsing on CL, i found a WS piccolo…I really hope the person stil has it and hasn’t sold it yet. Have read extremely good reviews on it.
silly argument
where does one find an Avocet LV, or any other 16’ kayak that doesn’t weigh more than half her body weight, in the OP’s stated target price range?
Lessons first, then buy
Best advice I got. Unfortunately, it was after I had bought my “starter” boat. So the lesson learned about handling a larger boat with ease came too late to effect my purchase decision.
Don’t get me wrong. My 10’ rec boat does an awful lot, especially on calmer waters, and it’s lighter by far. But I do have to work harder than the guys in slim long boats to keep up the pace; I can, but it has a limit.
There are a lot of factors in the design that affect the speed of the boat, not just length.
So take some lessons on someone else’s boats, see what you think you might graduate to, and target that, used if necessary. You won’t regret it!
PICCOLO
Is this the kayak you found on craigslist?
http://www.wildernesssystems.com/content/wildernesssystems.com/assets/page/2001/piccolo.jpg
Doesnt look like it has any front or read hatches. Maybe someone with more info on this kayak can say but if it doesnt have any bulkheads with hatches I would think you might want to ad some flotation in case it takes on water. Maybe some one else can chime in with more info on this kayak.
Hurricane Tampico 135s?
I’ve known a couple of women about your size who really loved the Tampico.
Just put in float bags
– Last Updated: Feb-03-12 9:02 AM EST –
It's dirt cheap, right? How wide are you at the hips? Make sure that works, but it likely does. This would be a good boat for you to have to get started for you more conservative environments, the low volume can be helpful. Just add float bags.
I am taller than you and am fine with a deck height that is only an inch taller, if that, than in this boat.
Canoecopia
Since it sounds like you will be attending this event just down the street is Rutabaga which also is the one that puts Canoecopia toghether. They not only sell kayaks and demo them but also sell used ones occassionaly.