There’s tragedy and grief on one hand and there’s judgmental attitudes towards others on the other hand. Let’s not get these confused.
I’m not sure where in the article it says they have no bracing skills. In fact, I don’t see mention of their skills at all. You are likely making an assumption about them and passing judgment. Maybe you did more digging than I’ve done and you know more about them.
Others in the thread have been even harsher than you towards these paddlers.
It’s not about being cavalier towards safety. It’s about trying to understand where other people are coming from, and not being too quick to judge. Informing them of what they can do better next time is also quite useful. Not so sure how much it helps to drag them through the mud.
I made assumptions about their preparations. Absolutely.
They were not in their boats. Unless they both decided to jump out of their boats for the heck of it, please provide some other explanation other than a failed brace. Combined with an inability to manage a rescue.
This again goes to the fact that you are relatively new at this and have not entered any training yet. First, someone let go of their boats in a capsize and/or rescue scenario. Neither were reported to have a problem like dislocated shoulder etc. One of the absolutely first things you learn in training is to never let go of your boat. Never ever. (Note, a picture of the rescue appears to show the bow on one kayak - so maybe one of them hung on.)
Second, as mentioned by someone else, in more difficult conditions there is a standing rule always three. That is because a complicated capsize by one person can easily take to to handle in conditions. I have been one of the two rescuers in such a situation - two of us would have meant a swimmer stayed in the water long enough to cede to hypothermia even with a drysuit. Three meant we could get them out of the water onto the deck of a kayak rafted up.
Looking at further coverage, they were actually hanging onto buoy near a jetty by Port Jefferson rather than well out. They were spotted by a ferry. But what someone not from area may not realize is the strength of the tide flowing thru there in spots. I have ridden that ferry. Combine a small craft advisory, which was up, with not accounting for that tide and it is a recipe for major problems. In fact one video shows the buoys bending over some from the tide, they are not up straight.
Accepting that people can make poor judgements is one thing, but you seem to be reaching far enough to try and discount the real possibility that this could have been much worse.
I can’t imagine using my cellphone to call for assistance in such situations. It’s small and slippery and will it work with cold fingers in a wet environment? These two should have had marine radios with “Oh Shit” buttons. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t…don’t know.
Wow, we’re so amazing here! We were able to figure out exactly what happened based on a news blurb with 84 words! Obviously we should all go to work for NTSB, the CG etc because of our superior investigation and analysis skills.
I really love the “you can’t understand because [you don’t have the same level of training] that I do” comments. I know it’s winter and some people aren’t able to paddle but you’re getting plenty of exercise jumping to conclusions and flying off the handle at people suggesting you exercise restraint in passing judgment.
What if the news story included their names, and it was local, experienced paddlers who operate a guide and coaching service? What if they were members here who’ve chosen to stay silent about having a bad day? Would you still be so quick to talk sh*t about your own friends on a forum?
I have readily admitted to my damn fool mistakes here.
Same question as for DanielD. Please explain how they came out of their boats and separated from them via any other means than the brace having failed. They may have had a good reason for it, but it is still the only way to have capsized.
There are some kayak outfitters along that shore. None of them match up with this story line though.
By the way, one of them had a dry suit failure and was checked out at the hospital for hypothermia.
You’ve missed the point entirely. It doesn’t matter how they came out of their boats. Maybe Nelly from Loch Ness reached up and flung them through the air! And, yes, maybe a brace failed. I’m sure the people here NEVER have a failed brace; otherwise, they wouldn’t be qualified to pass judgment. Right?
The point is, Stop Passing Judgment on others without knowing all the facts. And, in this case, there are barely any facts to know.
This is a theme I’ve noticed here over the last several months: whenever an accident occurs it means the people involved made poor choices, were unprepared or ill equipped. I hope in real life when dealing face to face with others we are not so quick to pass judgment. Often news reports contain preliminary or incomplete information and we can’t begin to know the fine details of what happened. Even experienced people in any sporting discipline get into sticky situations .
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If someone died then mistakes were made. If you only came close to dying then you are fortunate and can reflect upon your missteps and learn from them. We all make mistakes. Some water rides don’t resemble disney land.
What seems to be lost here is that they were out on open water, in the winter, during a Small Craft Advisory. It’s not an assumption, it’s a fact. That alone shows very poor judgement. How they came out of their boats isn’t particularly relevant; the point is that they shouldn’t have been out there in the first place. It’s not as if they hadn’t been warned or were caught off-guard by a sudden weather change or other unpredictable emergency that could be written off as bad luck. It doesn’t matter if they had a full compliment of safety gear or not. This incident never should have happened.
Yes, we’ve all made mistakes and these two made a colossal one. They are very fortunate to have survived. Hopefully, they learned from the experience and will make better choices in the future. It should serve as a lesson to all of us to take winter paddling and weather warnings seriously.
Just a quick comment on small craft advisories. I will go out on some of those days, not the ridiculous winds but when it is just over the line, when it is warm in Maine.
However - and this is a big one - where I paddle out of I always have an option to find a sheltered route where I can hide behind islands or a shoreline. I am just the other side of the cove away from one of two mouths of a major river, itself split by islands. I look at the wind direction and tide table to find the laziest route with shelter from the winds, hopefully ride a tide in, and near a multitude of bail out points. Add that I more often get up early to be back home before the offshore wind really kicks up, I am never really out in the full blown conditions stated in the advisory. No open crossings on those days.
I would hesitate to try this away from my rental cabin because I am a lot less familiar with the details elsewhere.
But there is no shelter on the north shore of Long Island… even without water temps probably 40 degrees.
On the National Center for Cold Water Safety website, we have 5 Golden Rules and 20+ incidents involving close calls and fatalities that result from ignoring one or more of those rules. Our website has been live for 8+ years.
Interestingly enough, The two cases that are associated with Rule No. 5 both involve situations in which boats blew away.
I read hundreds of paddling accident reports each year and have done so weekly for over a decade. Yes, we all make mistakes. Lots of them. People like Celia have no problem owning theirs. I respect that. My biggest kayak mistake was in the late 1980s when my own kayak blew away on a winter paddle. It’s the second case under Rule 5 and you can read about it here: National Center for Cold Water Safety
My point in commenting is that winter outings, frequently glorified by paddling magazines and Facebook groups, have a far thinner margin for error and require a lot more skill and preparation that paddling in warmer weather and on warmer water. Far too many paddlers don’t take it seriously enough to bother going to a site like ours and studying the material. That’s just sloppy planning and begging for trouble. As Bismark famously noted:
“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.”
Harsh? Yes, but nonetheless true. I try to be a little more diplomatic and tell fellow paddlers that it’s easier to learn the second way and that there are plenty of lessons in outdoor recreation that you don’t want to learn by direct personal experience. But the message is the same.
The best paddlers I know pay close attention to the carnage. They don’t blame the victims or toss around “Darwin Awards”, but they do dissect the incidents in search of lessons learned. In a forum like this, there’s nothing wrong with politely examining the incident - and doing so doesn’t have to involve judgement - even when poor judgement was a major contributing factor in the incident.
Key Point: Saying that judgement was poor or that complacency and overconfidence was a factor is very different from saying the paddlers were idiots or worse. One thing that I’ve noticed over my 50 year paddling career: I rarely hear about “overly prepared” paddlers getting into trouble. Just my two cents. Be safe out there, mates.
I am a covid newbie and kayak alone on the Delaware Bay I have a drysuit , my comment /question is how to you get the experience in cold water paddling if you never go in cold water or semi rough conditions. I have read plenty say they folks who went out on Long Island did not have the experience or skillset, how does one get it, if they do not go out in those conditions? they had dry suites , they had PFD and they had more than one person.
A surf zone along a shoreline can give you all of the difficult wave features you might experience in open water. A spot with current flowing opposite wind direction can produce features in an area with much more minimal fetch where you would normally need significant fetch in much more open water to experience. So you pay attention to onshore vs offshore winds, you pay attention to longshore currents, you pay attention to tidal currents and rip currents, you pay attention to the surrounding land features and hazards. You just pick a spot or a few spots that you become intimately familiar with where desired conditions occur. When you are capsized by a wave and lose hold of your boat, the conditions will take both to a safe haven where recovery is possible, and a swim to shore is well within reason.
Short period waves in open water can have a very dizzying effect if you’re nervous and your focus is in tight, watching them move under your kayak. Your body eventually irons out all of the reactions to remain balanced without watching everything happen, without tensing up, and without even interrupting your forward stroke. Most people really have to dedicate themselves to hundreds of hours of practice to get to the really meaningful advancements, myself included. Many things have come to me as a series of epiphanies, randomly occurring throughout thousands of hours of paddling.
So in saying this, I’m suggesting that you do not forgo some of the more violent tips and turns of the surf zone, thinking it will come to you in what you hope is gentler open water. I’ve found that I feel even smaller in open water, and the wind and whitecaps tend not to feel so gentle out there. Attempt to master the skills in your intimate and intentionally forgiving paddling environment before subjecting yourself to the open, unforgiving cold water environment. Don’t ever truly believe that you’re that person who struggles with surf environments, but can handle really big seas. Surf skills absolutely translate, and translate absolutely directly to rough open water skills. You don’t need heavy pounding surf. Crumbling surf is ideal.
Wind against current, and those really steep and really close period waves I think do an excellent job of bringing on the dizzying effect of open water. These conditions can really sharpen your directional control skills while riding waves. And you can often find places right along a safe shoreline.
These are my suggestions towards gaining open water experience in safe zones. Once you know a 3’ whitecapped wave is likely to capsize you, you’re much more likely to carefully avoid it, or do what it takes to advance you skills before putting yourself out there
Hi Seth-
Paddling solo on Delaware Bay in winter is not something that I advise anyone to do - outside of a small number of experts. It’s not enough to simply buy and wear a drysuit. The current water temperature at Lewes, DE is a brutal 41F. Getting anywhere near Cape Henlopen is ill advised because the conditions can get really nasty on the ebb tide and you don’t want to be carried into those areas by the current. The smart way you get familiar with cold, rough water is to very carefully ease into it with a couple of fellow paddlers - assuming that you are all skilled at rescues. Being able to roll confidently in rough water is a real asset. All of this takes practice. Gear-wide, read this article: Cold Water Paddling Gear - Google Docs. Watch this video: https://vimeo.com/529139413. Be very attentive to the marine weather forecast. Know about stuff like this: https://vimeo.com/653267238. And this: https://vimeo.com/661681123. And this: https://vimeo.com/677456693. Also, I invite you to visit our web site to learn more about cold water safety: www.coldwatersafety.org
CoVid has put a damper on this, but I think we will see some of what used to be normal activities returning this spring. One way to gain experience in conditions safely is to attend events or classes where you learn big water skills - for example courses run by the ACA (American Canoe Association).
The other way is to find other paddlers who have the skills and regularly practice them. Our local club for a number of years for example had informal rescue sessions each early summer even being mostly inland paddlers. Those who had the skills brought themselves, and sometimes spare boats, to a pond and we just helped people dump into the water and figure out how to get back in.
Doing this on a stinking hot day increased the audience.
I suspect you could find paddlers to work with in the Delaware Bay area, though I know it is rather large so you may have to drive some.
The other thing you can do - and I suppose this will kick off another set of charges of elitism but hang it - is to try and find someone to work with even if it costs some money to try to learn deep sculling and/or rolling. There really is not a faster way to get comfortable handling textured water. Any less aggressive approach will take more time to get to a comparable ability to handle the bumps.
I don’t know about idiocy or thrill seeking, but we are all guilty of poor judgement. Just because you are experienced doesn’t mean you don’t make bad decisions on occasion, and it is tough to argue that two guys who lost their boats and ended up hanging on a channel buoy made a good decision going out that day. The neat thing about hind-sight is that its 20/20.
Why this happened is a different question, and you are right that we will never know the the true story. To me, analyzing the accident isn’t being judgmental, but an opportunity to learn from someone else’s “poor judgement”, and there have been some good insights from this discussion - knowing the conditions you are paddling in, having the right group for the trip, having the skills to handle unexpected events, checking your gear before you go out, having a proper communication device. Basic stuff, but good reminders. If you think this is speculating or somehow passing judgment, then just laugh and move on.