Training. There is no substitute for training.
2 Likes
Not sure why the suggestion of training seems to trigger the elitism debate. My first Scuba course did not involve a deep wreck dive with decompression stops. I got there by training. Until I had the training I had no business being there.
2 Likes
In addition to what others have said:
-
Kayak clubs often offer “skill sessions” for members. These are a great way to learn skills in a safe environment supervised by advanced paddlers. These can vary from basic strokes (forward, backward, sweeps, braces, etc.), to rolling, rescues, rough water paddling (wind and waves), cold water paddling and more.
-
In addition to surf, you can sometimes find channels and other constrictions on currents that cause rough water, but dump into open areas where the water flattens out, easing rescues and reentries. They’re great play spots and are perfect for working on skills, with others, of course.
-
As for surf, I wholeheartedly agree that it’s fun and educational, but you really need to read the conditions carefully or you can get really hammered. Ideally, you want and gently sloping beach. The worst hit I ever took in surf was in smallish waves (2-3’) on a beach with a steep slope. The waves pushed up quickly, picked up my boat and slammed it onto the sand.
When you come out of your boat - and you will - make sure you don’t get caught between it and the beach. A kayak with a flooded cockpit is very heavy and can do a lot of damage.
- For cold water practice, the best place is protected lakes, bays and marinas. If possible, stay in water that you can stand up in. Never paddle cold water solo, especially if you’re new to it. It’s simply not worth the risk.
5 Likes
I think in my case, it feels like being bombarded with anxiety inducing messages constantly regardless of the fact that I have read a lot on these forums about safety and other things. The audience of posts here seems intended to be the unprepared masses out there, but those people won’t come here to read it anyway as you mention. People that are here reading for the most part want to learn and take things seriously, but in my case it’s extremely overwhelming and off-putting at times.
One question I have is how do paddlers have fun while being strongly aware of the dangers? When do you decide to go out, being confident that you have prepared enough? After 3, or 30 hours of training? Or only after earning a certain certificate? Does boating need to be your one focus and passion in order to do it correctly, or can someone with less time do it “on the side” while juggling the rest of their life?
… Admittedly that was more than one question!
Additionally… It says on your cold water danger website that anything under 70F should be treated with caution. That describes the water on most of the planet most of the time. It seems like a high bar. Again it’s difficult to know where to draw the line between a fun experience and a stressful experience where there’s constant worry about the water and what can go wrong.
1 Like
Actually, the more rigid scuba certifications seem better than the loose kayak ones. At least there’s a clear time when you can say “OK I can do it now with confidence, and no one can reasonably tell me I’m being reckless”. With kayaking the whole thing feels much more fluid and confusing. There seem to then be extreme camps that form, such as the safety obsessed camp and the overconfident, cavalier camp.
I have taken a ACA open water class and hope to take another in the spring to learn how to roll.The closet club to me is about 90 minutes away so that is not an option. I can self rescue in rough waters , but have only done it is warm weather to be fair. The only other kayaks I see on the island are fishing kayaks.
1 Like
Sounds like you are doing what you can. Possible you could find a similarly minded paddler via something like Meet Up? I know it can be tough, I face a similar problem where I go in the summer.
It sounds like your question is at what point do I know enough that I no longer need to worry about safety, and the answer is never. Risk management is something that every paddler regardless of skill level needs to do for every trip - where am I going, what are the conditions, do I have the right equipment, does it match my skill level, will I be with a group that can provide support. Pushing your limits is part of the fun, but you shouldn’t do it alone, in bad weather, without proper gear and without support. The assessment starts before you launch, continues on the water as conditions change, and yes, even after the trip as you assess what you did well and what you can do better next time (Celia’s story of her first trip to ME is a good example).
I think this is a part of paddling that you can’t learn in classes - you need to have done some trips to know where your comfort level is. I think you pick it up faster in a group because you will benefit from the assessments of others that you can compare to your own. Eventually it just becomes second nature.
It would be interesting to know the process the 2 kayakers from Long Island went through, because there were clearly some red flags. Sometimes even experienced paddlers blow it.
4 Likes
That is not the case at all. There is no scuba police out there telling anyone what they can or can’t do. You may need to show your card on a charter dive or when getting air fills but that is about it. Some divers certify open water, if at all, and then go do whatever they want.
I have seen and heard of many divers doing things they should not of and then you end up in the same conversation we are having on here.
1 Like
There is having fun when you are experienced and confident and there is fun when you are completely oblivious to the risks. I see the advice here as training. A good way to assess if an idea you have may be a good one before you end up making that mistake on your own.
4 Likes
It’s interesting that the world is seen as being 100% in people’s control in these discussions. In other words, did those paddlers inevitably blow it or did they just get unlucky? And in my opinion, nothing is a thrill if we feel like we know what will happen ahead of time. We’ve planned for every single scenario, we’ve walked through the whole trip, so there may be little left to discover or surprise us.
Celia relates her undesirable experience one time, but that is part of life. It is not possible to eliminate these undesirable experiences, and what stories would you guys tell to each other in your golden years if you never had uncomfortable or wild experiences? Or close calls? These are probably part of what make you guys who you are… like a part of your identity.
Plus, if there’s pressure to never make a mistake else you’ll have to put it under a microscope and feel ashamed about it later… that doesn’t sound like fun either.
Perhaps sea kayaking gives a retiree a sense of purpose later in life. I wonder what it’s like from the perspective of a working person with young children who has purpose from that, so would like to explore parts of the sea without it being a full time job. Or perhaps this is just not possible.
Yes, I like the idea of being experienced and confident. I guess when you reach the point of “second nature” as @eckilson mentions then the activity can be enjoyed more.
All of the decisions and calculations to make a sea kayaking trip seems a matter of personal judgment, and doesn’t need to be judged by others necessarily. Learned from perhaps, but I simply can’t imagine making a poor decision and those on the forum here learning of it. It would be more than humbling. It could become a public shaming.
I like the saying “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” It pretty much applies to everything you do. When it come to the ocean that punch can be very unforgiving. I have spent enough time on it and under it to know that the minute you think you are in control…you aren’t.
Some people need a public shaming for getting themselves into potentially deadly situations because of poor planning or lack of experience. I knew a guy who killed himself and his buddy while diving because he thought he was better than he was. His buddy was new to the sport and blindly followed him until it was too late.
Learn what you need to learn to go do what you want to accomplish and have fun. Be aware of the risks and include them with your plan. If you screw up and post it here someone else may benefit from it.
2 Likes
I think it’s very possible. Working folks with young kids enjoy golf and other sports so why not paddling?
Here’s one symposium that makes it easy for the parents: Kid's Camp at GLSKS – GREAT LAKES SEA KAYAK SYMPOSIUM
2 Likes
I work, and I have kids, two of them are pretty young. My oldest has almost no interest in anything outdoors. Maybe that will change one day. But, she’s only here every other weekend. My younger two are too young right now, but in a couple more years I’ll start them on flat water. My son will probably have fun. My youngest girl will probably just want to be towed around. When they aren’t with me and I’m not at work, and I don’t have something else I NEED to do, I spend as much time on the water as I can. Since I started kayaking last May and until I stopped in November, I was able to get out at least once almost every week.
It’s a balance.
2 Likes
Hey, C, really (as one “old timer” to another)… You don’t have to explain yourself to anyone. Even if s/he mentions you by name.
I recently viewed an okay TV show, but was taken by one really good line in it. “You should try to do some good (with your knowledge/skills/abilities). But, you shouldn’t feel as if you always have to try to do good.” Sometimes, you just let it go and let folks experience and learn on their.
sing
5 Likes
I think in regards to your question about how to have fun when dealing with difficult circumstances hits on one the key principles of why I do what I do. Its a bit deeper than fun but yes fun indeed …It’s a zen like achievement to work your way through a situation, be it a difficult descent through a dangerous rock garden, heavy confused seas, a tight tide rip, or a other complex circumstance. Nothing else matters at that moment, razor sharp focus comes in to play and it’s one of the alarmingly diminished times in life where you truly are “living in the moment” thought process eliminates all the distractions that life throws your way, or as I like to say it’s “Radical Action to unseat the hold of monkey mind” (thanks Robert Fripp)
In a former part of my life I was an avid climber, these moments are cherished points and it’s truly nirvana for me when I am in them. They are cleansing moments for those of us who approach them with this mindset and I won’t exchange them for anything, just as I wouldn’t ask anyone to disregard or judge their place of worship.
1 Like
for me this morning.Well, as individuals, there is only so much we can do. We can only hope that new paddlers will continue to come here and take advantage of our experience and advice.
It’s funny, but one of the things that was always in my mind prior to getting into coastal paddling was sharks. However, once I’m on the water, I never think about it. You don’t have to be constantly worried about what could go wrong, but you need to be aware of your circumstances (wind, waves, weather, fatigue, etc.) and potential hazards on an ongoing basis. That doesn’t prevent enjoying the environment, wildlife or beautiful weather out on the water. Being properly clothed and prepared with both safety gear and the skills to use it actually allows you to relax and enjoy yourself more. If you feel like you may be getting into conditions beyond your skill/preparation level, back off and head to more sheltered water or shore.
When you want to push your limits, do it with paddlers who have the skills to handle the conditions and to deal with any emergencies (rescues) that may occur.
There are a few things that can happen in cold water, but the most concerning is the “gasp reflex” that occurs when cold water hits your head/neck/upper chest area. It causes you to gasp uncontrollably and is probably responsible for most “he fell in and never came back up” drownings. Oddly, this is most common in water temps around 60 degree, according to what I’ve read. It’s only happened to me once and it was in water that temperature. Or course, I was teaching skills to a group of new paddlers, so while it was embarrassing, it was a classic “teachable moment” and it definitely made an impression on all of us.
Another concern with water temps of 70 or below is hypothermia. However, this can be prevented - or at least forestalled - with proper clothing.
As a (former) diver myself, I agree with you, but there are substantial differences. Scuba has inherent risks beyond what paddling does and the gear required is more technical in nature. It’s also important to note that the reason for the more stringent training requirements is because the diving industry imposed them on itself, both to protect divers (primarily) and to prevent misguided politicians from trying to regulate the activity. Additionally, it helps to prevent diving-related businesses from lawsuits. The only reason it works is that you can’t get tanks filled or dive with outfitters without certification (a “C” card). The flaw in the system is that there’s no requirement for retraining or ongoing training. I haven’t been diving it over 30 years, but I still have my C card and could still use it if I chose to, but I’m not stupid enough to think I don’t need to take a refresher class.
The paddling industry hasn’t done this, probably because there would be no way to enforce it. Anyone can buy paddling gear and there’s no licensing requirement to use it. Paddling doesn’t require anything that can be easily regulated like scuba air-fills are. Plus, there are lots more people who simply splash around in shallow water in rec boats than there are more “hard core” paddlers. They’re the vast majority of the kayak market.
5 Likes