A Kayak Quandry

-- Last Updated: May-06-07 5:23 PM EST --

Hi All:

First a little relevant background. I've had my Eddyline Skylark (my first kayak) a little over a month and have taken it out almost 20 times. I'm semi-retired, 63, in good shape from cycling typically 3000 miles/year, 6' tall, and 165 lbs. I've been kayaking so far on medium-sized New England flatwater rivers and really love it! My typical outing is 5-6 miles at about 4 mph.

My thoughts for this summer are to try some mild ocean (Rockport, MA and/or Bar Harbor, ME) to see how I like that. I did rent a sea kayak in Maine a few years ago. I live about 60-90 minutes from the ocean so would not be going there every day as I do now. There are no really large lakes any closer.

Here's the dilemma. Today I saw a used WS Tempest 165 (poly) in good shape for $685. I see these as my options:

1. Buy the Tempest (I'm assuming it'll fit - I didn't actually sit in it yet).
2. Wait until summer, try out my 12' Eddyline to see how it does in mild ocean conditions and also see how much I like and would go sea kayaking.
3. Rent a longer 16-18' sea kayak at that time to see how it compares.
4. [A project in the back of my mind] Build a wooden kayak (something like the Arctic Tern) next winter if I do fall in love with sea kayaking and find the Eddyline to be inadequate.
5. A combination of 2, 3, and 4.

Fortunately, Options 2, 3, and 4 can all wait. However, Option 1 (the Tempest) needs to be decided quickly. Am I being too impulsive with the limited experience I have or is this too good a deal to pass up?

Thanks so much.

Harvey

Buy the Tempest…
A good boat for what you want… You will fit and probably love it… Then if not you can resell it easy.

Ditto
Should be able to make your money back on the Tempest, if you decide you dont like it so not much to loose.

dittttto
that’d be a ditto on the ditto.



you will prolly love the Tempest and won’t wanna sell her.



:slight_smile:



steve

yep
tempest 165 100%, wonderful kayak

Dennis

agree completely
buy it.



buy it



buy it





you will probably end up selling your other boat.



Paul

you will probably end up selling your…
other boat.



Buy the Tempest!

Buy it
Then build the Tern next winter. Even on a very calm day, there are some potentially dodgy waters around Rockport–even on a super calm day. You’ll be glad to have the longer boat(s) for those.

But it.
Both boats have different purposes. You will find that the skylark will get you into tight little spots that are a little tougher to maneuver a larger boat in.

After a little more than a year into paddling I find that you can never have enough boats. (5 now) and always thinking about more.

Buy The Tempest, For Sure…
…and plan on building the Tern at your leisure - then make the Tempest your guest loaner/rock hopper/fill-it-with-ice-to-keep-the beer-cold-at-the-club-party boat ;->))

Building a S&G kayak for yourself opens another whole wonderful world to those who have some spare time, a few dollars, and a desire to get involved in an activity that’s at least as addicting and gratifying as paddling itself…

don’t take the skylark into the ocean
It’s a great boat for what it’s designed for–loved mine–but it’s designed for flat water, not the open sea. Have you ever capsized to see what would happen? Mine filled with water and disappeared beneath the surface. For conditions you really want something with more adequate floatation at both ends. That foam beam up front end just isn’t enough. Eddyline makes plenty of seaworthy sea kayaks (e.g. the Nighthawk), the Skylark just isn’t one of them. It’s a flatwater boat.



You’ll love sea kayaking and the Tempest! Like everyone else said, you can always resell it for $686!

It’s a "SLAM DUNK"
Never seen this board in this much agreement… :slight_smile:

One more
The T165 is also a great boat for learning to roll, which your Skylark is not.



I think you’ll be surprised at how manueverable the Tempest can be once you get comfortable lean and edging it.



At that price you can’t lose.

Just to pile it on
At that weight you aren’t likely to have a problem with the 165’s slightly skinnier cockpit. And at that price you can use the heck out of it for a year, turn around and sell it for not a whole lot less if you decide you don’t like it. As above, you don’t need to check out your other boat’s fit for those offshore environments - it ain’t it.

Well, I got it and…
…tried it out today. Here are my initial impressions:



The Tempest 165 definitely is faster than the Skylark, something on the order of 10%. The cockpit fits much better (as long as I have the foot pegs fully forward). I also liked the smaller beam - not once in my 6+ mile evaluation did the paddle hit the side of the boat.



However, I was very surprised by its not tracking nearly as well as my 12’ Skylark. It tracks fine with the skeg down, but with it up (as I had it most of the time) the boat would drift all over the place, and this was in relatively calm flatwater. I’m assuming this must be due to the soft chines and the lack of much keel compared to my Skylark. Unfortunately, this was a significant letdown for me.



I also miss the lightness and overall aesthetic superiority of the Eddyline Skylark, but at $685 I guess this would be asking too much for a rotomolded poly Tempest.



In summary, I’m not as excited as I thought I might be, but maybe I just need to wait until I can try it out on big water. Right now neither boat is for sale :wink:



Thank you to everyone for your helpful information, comments, and suggestions.



Harvey

ok…

– Last Updated: May-07-07 7:50 PM EST –

The Tempest 165 definitely is faster than the Skylark, something on the order of 10%.


ss->10%? did you get good grades in math? ;-)


The cockpit fits much better (as long as I have the foot pegs fully forward). I also liked the smaller beam - not once in my 6+ mile evaluation did the paddle hit the side of the boat.

ss->narrower beam will result in waaaayyyy better rough conditions performance and speed.



However, I was very surprised by its not tracking nearly as well as my 12' Skylark. It tracks fine with the skeg down, but with it up (as I had it most of the time) the boat would drift all over the place, and this was in relatively calm flatwater.

ss->it's easy to make boats track or turn well. It's hard to make 'em do both. length does NOT get you tracking. what you have experienced is called maneuverability (EZ to turn). again this will shine in rough stuff/ocean conditions. this WAS your original desire, eh??

I'm assuming this must be due to the soft chines and the lack of much keel compared to my Skylark. Unfortunately, this was a significant letdown for me.

ss-> learn to paddle correctly, experience the 'sea' and this will NOT be a let down. If it STILL is then sell it.


I also miss the lightness and overall aesthetic superiority of the Eddyline Skylark, but at $685 I guess this would be asking too much for a rotomolded poly Tempest.

ss->come on now. you are comparing a Gucci rec boat to a very able sea kayak.

In summary, I'm not as excited as I thought I might be, but maybe I just need to wait until I can try it out on big water. Right now neither boat is for sale ;-)

ss-> have you considered a good sea kayak lesson??????? might make a difference in how you approach your paddling.

Thank you to everyone for your helpful information, comments, and suggestions.

ss->con mucho gusto --- our (i'm speaking for a bunch of us) pleasure

steve

I think you will find
that as your butt time in the tempest increases you will find that you will subconsciously and unconsciously make that boat go in a very straight line with no problem just by learning little nuances without even thinking about them. Perhaps you are used to a boat that you can close your eyes in with some chop and when you open them 5 minutes later you are going in exactly the same direction. this will not happen with the tempest as it gives up that train like tracking for maneuverability and performance in waves and wind.



Tempest will be faster, will get you home safely in many more conditions than your other boat, will roll exceptionally well, will train you to be a better paddler, and will increase your overall skill sets all around.



Just my take. I own a beat up tempest 165 and wouldn’t get rid of it for anything…except maybe that fiberglass t165 flatpick has been promising me…and even then I would keep the poly boat just to be able to beat it up in surf and rocks.



Paul

Tracking

– Last Updated: May-07-07 9:25 PM EST –

Tracking is extremely subjective. I help teach a beginning whitewater class, and at the start of the first class -- on a pond -- the "experienced" flatwater kayakers can't go five boat lengths without spinning 180 degrees. By the end of the first evening they can go straight across the pond with no problems.
A more responsive boat forces you to clean up your stroke.

You may need a shorter paddle to paddle the Tempest well. A paddle that's comfortable with the Skylark may have you doing sweep strokes in the Tempest.

I havea 16' Avocet that's looser than the T165, but it tracks like a train compared to a whitewater boat. It's all what you're used to.

still
Eddyline = really nice workmanship



if Eddyline made an ABS Tempest, that would be the bomb









(Fathom = near miss)

As above…
My guess would be that you are leaning around and moving your torso on and off the center of the balance more than you realize, the diff being that the Tempest will respond to some of that which the wider beam Skylark ignored. As a simile, when I was riding I got up on a polo pony a couple of times that had come in and was fresh off the string. While the other school horses would pay no mind to our bobbing loosely around in the saddle as we approached a turn and stay on the track, the polo pony would respond to that as an intentional command. It was a fast way to check our riding - most of us spent a lot of time in the middle of the ring barely missing a pretty annoyed instructor until we got our act together.



Lessons are a good idea no matter what - I am guessing that at this point you haven’t learned the rescues and gotten some basics of handling waves under your belt. If you are contemplating even trying out the ocean these are things you need. And that’ll also straighten out your stroke. The Tenmpest should be a whole lot more than 10% faster than the Skylark because it won’t set up a bow wake as soon.