You’re mixed up
there are two things under discussion: copyright and contracts. You’re bringing in patents…
But, they “give” you the directions & a
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"parts & tools needed" list to build it. And that list is not made on a special paper that self-destructs after 1 use.....
Copyrights are to protect someone other than the designer to make a profit off such a design, not to stop people from building their design.
Paddle easy,
Coffee
Of course you ‘can’ do that
but the contract upon purchasing the plans licenses you to build one boat.
The plans I have do not say…
“You can only build one boat” on them. As a matter of fact, they show many other styles & options to build from too.
Oh, by the way… My plans that I have are Uncle John’s copyrighted plans. But that does not mean I cannot “give” them to someone. It just means I can not “sell” them to someone…
See the differance??
Paddle easy,
Coffee
So you are saying John Hennesey…
Could only have “leagley” built one hammock??!!
Then how is it that there are thousands of them out there, being bought by our very own “law abiding” p.netters no less??!!!
And how is it that he has a company that produces & sells them on a daily basis?
Just something to contradict your thought on the subject. And to think about…
Paddle easy,
Coffee
and in fact, you CAN profit
Unless the license expressly prohibits selling the boat after you have built it, you can buy as many of the plans as you like, build that many boats and sell them.
You are completely and utterly wrong. But then, I guess you think it’s ok to buy a CD, copy it several times and sell them?
Although I don’t have in front of me the license for the pygmy boats (that’s a LICENCE), I have the Guillemot Kayaks License agreement: it is short and sweet. I’d expect the Pygmy agreement to be similar.
No, no, no
[snip]CoffeeII wrote:
But, they “give” you the directions & a “parts & tools needed” list to build it. And that list is not made on a special paper that disinigrates after 1 use…
[/snip]
Wrong, they sold you directions and a parts list – and you bought those directions with the proviso to build one boat from their plans. Building more than one boat from those plans is simply dishonest as you’ve broken the contractual agreement of the sale.
[snip]CoffeeII wrote:
Copyrights are to protect someone other than the designer to make a profit off such a design, not to stop people from building their design.
[/snip]
Wrong again. Copyright is not only to protect someone from making a profit – the purpose of copyright is to protect the intellectual property of the owner, regardless of whether or not a profit is being made.
For instance, my website has a lot of photographic images on it – I don’t charge anyone to use the website, and I own the copyright to those images – the images belong to me and I control their use. If you take one of my images and use it on your own personal website without my permission, you are in violation of copyright laws. If I choose to legally persue action against someone who ‘borrows’ one of my images, there is no doubt that I would win such a law suit. Legally, that person has absolutely NO claim or right to use my intellectual property without permission.
Before handing out more erroneous information, you should take a read through this website:
http://www.copyright.gov/
Again, it all comes down to honesty.
I’m really surpised at the lack of integrity that some people have expressed in this thread.
Dan
http://www.westcoastpaddler.com
I know nothing about hammocks
What have hammocks got to do with building boats?
We are talking about a pygmy boat set of plans from which a boat has been built, but is modified. Now, since neither of us has the license agreement we cannot catagorically state that the builder of such a boat can ‘build’ another one based on those plans. I would be very confident in catagorically saying no.
With regards to your ‘plans’ that you have: the actual plans are irrelevant, but what is relevant is the license under which they were obtained.
I would assume a ‘one boat’ license: if you have built a boat from them, you cannot ‘give’ the plans (license!) to someone else - it’s pretty useless to them, since you are giving them a license from which they cannot make another boat.
If you have NOT built a boat, and the license agreement doesn’t make mention of transfering that license to someone else, I think you would be safe in giving/selling those plans - with the license to build a boat - to someone else. I wouldn’t catagorically say that’s true, but possible.
Common sense prevails. As you said (somewhere…) copyrights are designed to protect the holder: how does ‘giving’ the plans to someone else after you have built a boat protect the copyright holder??
sigh…
see below
I agree, especially with:
“Again, it all comes down to honesty.
I’m really surpised at the lack of integrity that some people have expressed in this thread.”
It seems the internet generation has made such things 'socially acceptable': if it's on the internet I can do what I like with it.
I am ashamed to admit that I wouldn't copy a (sea kayaking) DVD for someone, but lent it to them feeling (knowing?) that they were going to get it copied by someone else.
I hear too much of "can you copy that for me"? these days.
No, we are talking about copyrights…
Not just buiolding boats. The hammock thread & conversation is just one example on the subject.
Same principle, different product.
Pay attention… lol
Paddle easy,
Coffee
Do you have a reading disability…
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I have stated over & over.....
You can obtain a set of plans, by either purchase or favor.
You can build as many boats off that one set of plans as you want.
You CANNOT sell such boats built off those plans.
Plain & simple. That is what I have been saying... I can build as many Pirogeus as I want off this one set of plans, I just cannot sell them or make (in any way) a profit off such boats or plans.
If the one I make of this set of plans, breaks or sinks, I sure as hell am not going to buy another set of plans that I already have.
Paddle easy,
Coffee
BTW: I have referanced hammocks only as an example on the principle of another product. Same copyright laws.
And once again…
You cannot build more than one boat from one set of plans.
Unless you have the license agreement stating otherwise (i.e. “you may build as many boats as you like, but may not sell them”), then I will admit, that in this case, I’m wrong. But, I will quote what I feel is a reasonable license agreement:
“Purchase of the plans provide the purchaser with license to build one (1) boat. The purchaser has the right to construct one complete set of forms and build one boat based on these plans. Modification of the design does not constitute a release from this agreement. Scaling or rearranging of the plans or other modification of the plans constitute a design based on this design and the resulting design is still covered by this agreement. Additional boats may not be built, if based on these plans, without express written permission from the designer”
So what you are saying is…
If I wanted to build two identical (less paint)pirogues, one for me & one for my girlfriend. I would have to buy 2 sets of plans.
OR
If me and my buddy wanted to take a weekend & build acouple boats. One for me & one for him, we would have to buy 2 sets of plans?
Just trying to get this straight…
Paddle easy,
Coffee
Not a copyright issue
Copyright is not the issue here.
When you purchase a set of plans for a boat you are not purchasing the design. You are not purchasing a set of plans.
You are purchasing a license to build one boat based on those plans. When you paid your money you entered into a contract.
The licence agreemtent here:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/Guillemot/Price/price.html#license
is typical.
Yes
Catagoricaly, resoundingly, yes.
That means, “Yes, you will need to buy two sets of plans to build 2 boats”
Make sure to burn all the books you
own after you read them. you wouldn’t want them to fall into the hands of someone who didn’t pay for the pleasure of reading them.
Copyright protections are not absolute. And the creator doesn’t have the right to define them as they see fit. Copyright laws are a negotiated compromise which try to serve the needs of the producers and the interests of society at large. What constitutes “fair” use is constantly evolving. Just because someone has an honest disagreement with you regarding what constitutes “fair” use, doesn’t mean they are morally debased, and it doesn’t mean you have have exclusive ownership of the moral high ground.
hammocks and canoes.
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Once again Coffee is trying to roil the waters on this issue.
Fact 1. Hennessey did not "copy" the jungle hammock. His final design is worlds away from the Jungle Hammock the troops were issued. In fact, many troops are now purchasing their own Hennessys for use in the field. See Sgt Rocks site. http://hikinghq.net/
F 2. As you stated elsewhere, (now gone missing) the plans you have (Uncle Johns by your own admission) were e-mailed or faxed to you free. Did Uncle John send them to you? If not you pirated his plans and owe him a licence fee.
See my post in this thread on building subsequent canoes from the same set of plans.
or…
pay the licence fee to build the additional boat from the same set of plans. See above.
this link is worth reading
I have shortened it here:
http://tinyurl.com/b5rch
so you don’t have to cut and paste