Club insurance or not, we were never protected as we thought! The current loss of insurance may blind us to the fact that insurance reduces some of the catastrophic costs to the organization but never precluded the personal liability to the officers, instructors, and leaders. It is very much like when you go to a doc and they give you a new miracle drug and don't tell you the side effects, although uncommon may be death. What they don't tell you can and will hurt you, even kill. The insurance may have a subrogation clause allowing them to come after you later, and there are numerous losses of time, loss of reputation, money friends, humiliatilion, that insurance is no shield for. Just focusing on getting it back is not the simple answer IMO.
It is better IMO to have truth in advertising. Want to join a club help our fellow beings, me too. But I want to know the truth the whole truth before making the choices. This is elective activity and I want to reduce the unnecessary risks and increase the benefits. Maybe we can all find a less risky way to have shared adventure, learning, etc.
Exclusions Most D&O policies are specifically written for the policyholder in question, and rated based on what they cover.
It’s a commercial lines product, so the terms are negotiable, unlike a personal lines policy. But you’re right, it’s best to read ANY insurance policy before you pay for it.
Our club has considered getting a D&O policy in the past, but we decided to remain as we are for the time being.
Kind of like paddling in that I suppose that if we’re willing to live with a small risk of death on the ocean to do something we enjoy, we ought to be able to live with a small risk of a disastrous lawsuit on land. But somehow on the ocean you feel a little more like you’re in control, even though you’re not.
Coincidentally, I’m currently a defendant in a completely bogus tort claim arising out of my former business (not related to my work, just an odd claim from an odd individual). Our CGL carrier is defending, which means we’re not having to deal with much of the hassle, but it’s still surprising how little I worry about it. OTOH, I’ve known people to get pretty torn up over dubious professional liability claims, so YMMV.
You must have 2 sets of eyes I am completely in favor of self-instruction and solo practice in addition to the usual kind. Books, videos…I use them. They still are no substitute for having other people watch you paddle and give constructive criticism. It’s amazing how another set of eyes can see things you have no clue you are doing. But then again you have to be willing to listen to that criticism.
My drive to good instruction would be 24 hours, not 8.
Shameless plug? Sounds like you think it is a big joke that people may be required to sign up and pay for one of your classes before they can teach a club member anything. Great work. Seems like you are carving out yourself a job whilst working with the ACA to push for paid instruction. I was an ACA member once. Good riddens. You guys have talked yourselves right INTO this insurance mess.
Why cant the ACA self fund its liability and save it’s members some grief? 50,000 members should be able to so that without the added cost of overhead from large insurance companies. Probably because greasy wheels dont make enough noise?
or should I say soon to be required certification program. What is your affiliation with the ACA again?
It is guys like you that make club paddling such a drag. Promoting regulation is counter productive to having fun. But it does generate some income eh?
Good luck Steve.
ACA has a primary goal. To be the acknowledged source of the most comprehensive and accurate information regarding all aspects of paddlesport. Sounds like a power trip.
I agree It’s really underhanded and it’s understandable that the ACA was seriously ticked off about it. Since the insurance was cancelled part way through the year, we’re expecting a rebate from the ACA, who in-turn, should be getting money back from their insuror.
Like you, I don't worry about liability from paddling. I'm investigating insurance on my club's behalf because the club has made the decision that being insured is the way they want to go. Personally, I don't care and would be perfectly happy to continue doing what I do without insurance coverage. The likelihood of someone suing me because a rescue technique I taught them didn't work when they needed it, or because I assisted on trip or ran a workshop in which they were injured, is negligible. The fact that I let people use a bandsaw and drill press that I provide at outfitting workshops is a much greater risk than anything I do on the water. Even still, I'm at far more risk DRIVING back and forth to put-ins, skills sessions and workshops.
One thing is quite clear; on the whole, Americans have little understanding of risk. The furor over West Nile virus is a classic example. A handful of people die and the population is panic stricken, but they happily jump into their cars, unconcerned that tens of thousands of people die on the roads every year. I wonder how many of the people who freaked over WNV are smokers? In the overall scheme of daily risks, getting sued for a paddling related incident is WAY down on the list.
If one is truly worried, personal liability insurance is dirt cheap.
Not even one good set of eyes! L I could be a mess from being self taught - don’t know.
Boat goes where I want it to at a decent clip. I can cover distance pretty well. I stay upright unless I don’t want to - and get back upright OK after. Have gear that does what I want and doesn’t interfere. Modified and/or upgraded as needs change. When I do paddle with others - they seem to think I do just fine.
I do know what you’re saying - and sympathize -but I just can’t get too worked up about lack of clubs or professional instruction. Minor frustration, as long as I can paddle! I am sure I would benefit if I had lessons - but at the same time I refuse to feel inadequate or unskilled without them. If and when I get a shot at it I probably will. Until then, no big loss. Still much I can learn and refine on my own.
There are great instructors out there - but no perfect ones - and no single correct way to do things either (just ask people who’ve had several instructors). Find more as you’re able - but don’t discount the most important one - YOU!
All I’m really saying is to work with what you’ve got at what pace you can (and don’t feel your somehow restricted or destined to be less of a paddler simply for lack of formal training). Shortcuts are great, but not always the best path.
Personally, I find I like the process of learning more than hitting way points or goals - because as soon as I get something - there’s something else (example: My first rolls were so much of a non-event, after wanting that so much, it almost disturbed me. My mind skipped the “YEAH!” and went right on to thinking about more practice, offside, other rolls…). Individual achievements are fleeting. The enjoyment and discovery is continuous regardless of where I am at that point.
This Is The “Way” Of The "Beginner…" that I always refer to. No final destination, no time line, no real goal. Just the process of practice and self discovery.
not understanding risk is part of the problem with the american pathos. The other part is fear.
We are a fear-to-consumer based society in a lot of ways.
Our culture lives in fear of everything. We have terror alerts: red, orange, green, and yellow, and the result of these was unprecedented duct tape and scotchguard sales for windows.
We’re afraid of intruders/invaders so we buy guns and alarm systems.
We’re afraid of obscure diseases, animal attacks, and invaders from mars, and the solutions to all these problems is to buy more stuff. Just watch the news tonight, and you’ll see all sorts of stuff that is very unlikely to happen and what to buy to fix it.
But I agree with Brian for the most part, that folks are worried about getting smallpox from terrorism, but continue to eat McDonald’s and smoke cigarettes. It is a miserable way to live.
It’s not your friends you have to worry about, but it’s their families, and even more importantly health insurance companies.
Several years ago, my wife and I were vacationing on a Tall Ship in the Carribean. One night we had a party on a sister ship and after a few rum swizzles, my wife managed to catch her foot between a boarding ladder and our launch.
We thought she sprained her ankle, but after we got home, she was hospitalized for a week with cellulitus.
Our medical insurance carrier tried to get us to fill out a form so they could sue the ship to recover their costs.
The only thing that stopped it was our insistance on the form that the accident was caused by my wife 100% and that we would testify to that if necessary.
How many people would just fill out a form and let the insurance company sue??
For professional instructors and guides …the risks are quite real. That’s part of what they assume when they start taking money for their expertise. On the other hand, I have yet to hear of any non-professional being sued. Have you?
You’re absolutely right about individual insurance costs. That’s why professional instructors in most sports rely on group rate insurance through large organizations, like the ACA, PADI, etc. For a non-professional, an inexpensive individual liability policy will cover you, since you’re not a business.
Fortunately… …we don’t HAVE to live that way. It’s really a choice. If you take the time to understand the risks in your life, you can blow most of them off and only be concerned about the serious ones (driving, addictive behavior, diet, stress, sendentary lifestyle etc.), all of which are within our control. There’s little point in worrying about risks that you cannot control, especially since most of them are infinitesimally small.
It seems to be a disappearing personality trait in our society. With the exception of my close friends, very few people that I run into can actually, “I’m sorry, I made a mistake.”
Padlock the playground! Crooked lawyers are the parasites that padlock the playground so now kids must play in the street. Law schools have ambulance chasing jokes and bed races to practice chasing ambulances. Shakespeare was right. We need a revolution and hang the lawyers and I would add, “Drag the lawyers thru the streets with barb wire around their neck.”