I have been paddling on recreational kayaks for many years, and have finally decided to get myself a good touring kayak built for speed. I found a very good deal on a kevlar Dagger Cortez 17.5, the kayak fit me perfectly.
Now I am somewhat concerned about stability and safety. I consider myself a somewhat experienced kayaker and have paddled through some very rough conditions, however I never took lessons or tried any rolling maneuvers. Nor do I wear a PFD vest (although I have 1) or a spray skirt.
The Cortez 17.5 seems like a very fast boat and has decent stability on a small calm lake. I am concerned about choppy waters and high winds on a larger lake. Is this kayak suitable for beginner-intermediate kayaks like me, or should I become familiar with rolling or seek an alternative kayak?
Also- in case the kayak capsizes, does the spray skirt make it difficult to quickly get out of the kayak - or is it a non-issue because the water won’t get in and I’ll just balance myself out?
PFD, sprayskirt and rolling
Seems wise to wear a PFD to me. I always do. Experienced sailor drowned a couple of weeks ago near me. Fell overboard without a PFD.
Skirt can make it more difficult to get out of the boat. Depends on the skirt and the circumstances. You should practice wet exits with skirt.
Rolling is always a good skill to have.
new kayak
WHY in heavens name don’t you wear your PFD? If it fits well it should be comfortable and maybe save your life. Or maybe you are pulling some kind of joke?
you are getting a racing kayak
if you do not learn how to roll you will go over in waves. Next time find some boat wakes over 6" tall and try to paddle down them and see what happens. It’s four times more difficult in 12" waves if you do not have a natural brace.
Your post gives the impression you do not have basic self-rescue skills which basically says you are expecting someone to rescue you or that you are willing to abandon the kayak in order to swim to shore and the water is warm enough to do so.
The Cortez 17.5 is a fast kayak with little inititial stability. I wouldn’t get it without the intention to learn how to roll if you intend on paddling in any kind of waves.
Wow… That’s pretty weird…
You originally posted:
“… however I never took lessons or tried any rolling maneuvers. Nor do I wear a PFD vest (although I have 1) or a spray skirt.
… I am concerned about choppy waters and high winds on a larger lake. Is this kayak suitable for beginner-intermediate kayaks like me, or should I become familiar with rolling or seek an alternative kayak?
Also- in case the kayak capsizes, does the spray skirt make it difficult to quickly get out of the kayak - or is it a non-issue because the water won’t get in and I’ll just balance myself out?”
And yet you started your post: "I consider myself a somewhat experienced kayaker "…
Sorry, but I totally disagree… you sound like a novice to me… the kind we find dead in the river/lake a couple of times a year…
Time to reconsider.
Good Questions Deserve Good Answers
a. Yes - wear the PFD and wear it properly fastened. When you’ve dunked and are trying to stay afloat way off shore, probably by yourself, you’ll need both hands to retrieve your paddle and your kayak.
b. Yes - use a spray skirt in heavy water. It’ll keep most of the water out of your 'yak.
c. As previously stated, practice wet exits and if you can’t roll at least learn a couple self-rescues.
Any day on the water is a great day,
Cal
yep, statistic in the making
Why?
Rolls let one recover from a capsize without exiting the boat. Skirts keep it from filling with water. PFDs help keep one afloat if you end up swimming. Why would anyone paddle rough waters with none of the above???
Re skirts and escape - on ours, there’s a dirty great big bright yellow loop handle sewn to the front lip of the skirt - grab it and pull, and presto, the skirt’s gone. Then you can use any of several methods you’ve learned and practised to re-enter the kayak.
Rough waters with no roll, no skirt, no PFD, and weak or no re-entry skills - not the kind of odds I want when it turns nasty out there. Our waters are mercilessly cold this time of year, and sensible people treat them with the utmost respect. The others end up wet, cold, frightened, and all too often, dead.
well…
Well as I said I always paddled in recreational kayaks, where getting out in case of rolling over is fairly easy. I am also an experienced swimmer, and always paddle with a friend of mine who kayaked all his life. I find the PFD vest uncomfortable for active paddling as I like to paddle hard for a workout, and for hours at a time. Maybe I just have the wrong vest. But I guess it is time to find one that I can wear all the time.
Also is the spray skirt (I am looking for a Seal brand one) going to completely prevent the kayak from taking on water if I lean to far towards an edge or roll over?
And if I do capsize in a kayak like Cortez 17.5 with a spray skirt, would it be fairly easy to get back up since it has such a rounded hull? Seems to me like rolling is uneccesary if I stay on the lake, as long as I can balance myself back up.
Thanks
Cortez and Basics
First, being experienced for many here means that you have some basic practices down, like use of a PFD and skirt with practiced wet exits. Be aware of that.
The Cortez is a plastic boat - which means that even a neoprene deck skirt secured by bungies rather than a thick rand will just push off if you fail to go for the grab loop. Not a good habit to cultivate, but it's one of the unintended safety features of most plastic boats for newbies. (and with the demands of this boat it appears you are a newbie) A nylon skirt will fall off unless you are jammed in there awfully tight.
As to the specific demands of this boat - the Cortez was put out by Dagger to be a fast plastic boat that was not much about turning. That means that in wind or chop you are going to have to lean the heck out of it to make it come around. My husband and I tried this boat early on when we started looking at 16 ft plus boats, and we both found it interesting but not to our taste because of that. We didn't relish having to work that hard to get home if we were coming in against conditions.
If you don't have a decent skirt, yeah the cockpit will take on water when you turn it. If you don't know how to take a boat over on edge and turn it, you are going to have to paddle home backwards on a windy day. In sum, you have a boat that will require you to up your skills from what they appear to be now in order to make sure you can go where you want.
As to re-entry - we didn't try it so I have no idea if it stays nicely quiet for a paddle float re-entry. But the process of learning to roll whether or not you "get it" increases your allover ability to do a lot of other things, like better braces, which you'll need to know to get this boat home in conditions.
Cortez 17.5
The Cortez 17.5 appears to be composite. Also, it’s quite narrow.
http://www.dagger.com/product.asp?BoatType=TourKayak&BoatStatus=DC&BoatID=191
The plastic Cortez appears to be quite a different boat.
http://www.dagger.com/product.asp?BoatType=TourKayak&BoatStatus=DC&BoatID=132
Sea kayaks
It's a bit harder to exit the kayak with a skirt but not really a problem. Try it! (Maybe, with some one around to help if you get stuck.)
For sea kayaks, a skirt is an integral part of the boat. That is, you can't really use a sea kayak well without one. I never paddle without wearing one.
I'd say you'll do OK with this boat as long as you work up to conditions and you don't put yourself in a position where you can't get to shore.
Maybe, a lesson would be a good idea.
PFD
Take a look at the Astral Newton. It moves with you better than some of the others. Now, its not Coast Guard approved, but I think that's 'cuz its got about 14 lbs of flotation rather than 16. Also, consider an inflatable PFD. Actually, I think you need to get a different boat and sell me that Cortez. Cheap. And, they are fiberglass. My 16.5 is plastic but the 17.5 is 'glass.
Kevlay Cortez 17.5
I’ve owned the Dagger kevlar Cortez 17.5 for 3 years. It is a twitchy boat and I recommend have a good roll and brace or solid self rescue skills. It is easy to roll, but it rides high in the water for self-rescue techniques. This is not a boat you can relax in sitting still. However, it is fast and very maneuverable. I have several kayaks and this is my main boat.
It will be a big difference from your typical rec boat, but you won’t outgrow it. Hope this helps.
Still a rail but
Didn't realize they had put this out in composite, so scratch any comments from me about skirts coming off the coaming easier.
But we did try out the plastic Cortez, and our experience was what it suggests on Dagger's site that they are hard trackers and stiff, intended to be fast. The boat was released specifically to fill that kind of niche per statements from the manufacturer at the time. The composite looks even more so.
Same problem for someone moving up from a rec boat - this boat is going to be challenging.