Advice for my wife's first kayak paddle

Trying a paddle before buying in my neck of the woods is out of the question. She is 5 foot tall and will be paddling a new Delta 12AR. That kayak is 12 feet long and 26.5 inches wide. I’ve researched several charts that say 220cm should do the trick. This is what I know…

  1. She’ll be low angle paddling casually. Opinions on paddle length welcome…charts keep saying 220cm but don’t differentiate between high and low angle when giving that figure.
  2. Small hands. How do the small ladies do with standard diameter shafts? I see werner has an option for a smaller diameter shaft and am left wondering if she’d be happier with that.
    So basically…I’d hate to order the wrong size paddle because I plan to get her a light weight paddle (aka carbon). Right now I’m considering ordering the cheapest paddle I can find in a 220cm to test…

Advice welcome on the above 2 questions. Thx…

Where is your neck of the woods? People here may know of resources you are not yet aware of.

You could use dowels and/or plastic pipes to try and approximate the size handles, and see how comfortable they feel to your wife. At 5 feet, a small diameter shaft sounds like it would be a good fit.

My wife is 5 ft10 inches. We use touring kayaks that are 21.4 inches wide. She has been happy with the same length paddle I use, 230 cm. If the fit system at Werner is suggesting 220 cm, that is probably fine. We humans can accommodate to various sizes.

My wife did notice the difference between even relatively high end paddles, in terms of weight, catch, and flutter. She much preferred Werner Kalliste to an Eddyline Wind Swift, both carbon and very light. I would consider the Werner Athena for you wife, if it is within the budget.

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For myself, the more casual and easy-paced the paddling, the more I notice the paddle weight. When I’m pushing for speed, the moment the paddle is in the air is the free, easy, unnoticed moment, and the actively pushing the boat through the water moments feel like the work. When lily-dipping at casual paces with slow transitions between strokes and longer periods of just holding my paddle out of the water, the weight of the paddle starts to feel like a more significant piece of the puzzle.
A Werner Athena 220 cm with a small diameter straight shaft will push that kayak as fast as it is reasonably intended to be pushed, and her casual paddling experience will be quite different than it would be with a heavier paddle.
Now if it turns out she enjoys a stronger catch for quick accelereation or executing maneuvers, I would probably go for a Cyprus 210. But if it’s going to be pretty casual, getting the umph needed out of the Athena will be far more about good technique than any inherent shortcoming of the blade size and shape. Without fussing much about technique and more technical aspects of paddling, she’ll likely be quite happy with the Athena too.

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My wife is 5’1" and paddles a 22" wide kayak. She likes a higher angle paddle. She uses Werner paddles with the small diameter shafts and a length of 200 cm. Specifically a straight shaft Shuna.

My gut says that your wife would want a 220 cm, or maybe even a 230 cm.

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I see the kayak, paddle, PFD and owner as a “system” which works best together when VIEWED AS A SYSTEM. What I mean by that is as follows;

In your correspondence with me I see you got her a Delta Rec kayak with a cockpit of 50" in length and no thigh braces. What that means in a practical scene is that large waves with breakers are going to flood over the deck and swamp the kayak unless a spray skirt is installed, but such long cockpits have a set of problems with skirts too, simply because the skirts must be put on from front to back because human arms are not long enough to install them from back to front as in most other kayaks.

So let’s assume big waves and breakers are not in the mix. Not the best kayak for that kind of water (In the future ask me ---- and I’ll tell you exactly how I know these things)

So — we have a lady who is small and is going to enjoy outings in flat, calm or sheltered water. Still it’s a bad idea to ever go out with no PFD. So when she’s wearing a PFD we need to look at the space she’ll have to shift her weight from side to side, to learn the skills of edging that kayak. Yes, even a rec-kayak responds a lot better when you can edge it to turn it. And learning to use them skillfully make them a lot more fun which in turn make them want to go out more.
No thigh braces mean she does all edging with hip/butt pressure, not by lifting up with a knee or thigh. It also means a shift of the butt to the side, to place the weight off-center. Such kayaks as the 12AR do very well with that kind of weigh shift, and are very stable and easy to lean. But now, think of her being off-set and having to clear both the hip-pads in the seat and clear the PFD (not a problem at all if the correct type is used) and that means the paddle is also now off set from the center line of the keel. The angles and extension used in this way vary some from the way a paddle is used when someone rotates but doesn’t off-set in a sea kayak. MOST paddling instructions are given with the idea that the paddle will be used in a WW or a Sea kayaks. The difference is not great, but it IS noticeable.

Last we need to consider the factor of physical strengths and endurance. Just because a woman is small is NOT a reason to think they are weak in their paddling skills. FAR FROM IT! My sister introduced me to a friend of hers that paddles the Alaskan coast all the time, and that woman amazes me with her abilities. 68 years old, at 5 feet zero inches and about 104 pounds she acts like a sea mammal in her kayak. But she is very dedicated to her sport and simply an expert at how to paddle. So if your wife has the desire to learn the top end of the techniques she may become “an amphibian”. The Delta 12AR is a rec kayak but it’s a very good one, and it has potential to be far more useful then just “a thing that floats”. Learning to use it to it’s top design limited is what’s fun.

Which brings me back to the original question. “Best paddle”? “Best paddle” is like "best kayak:. Best for what?

I do see wisdom in getting something very light weight and VERY buoyant simply because I see nothing to loose in gaining those 2 attributes in ANY paddle and in all paddles extra weight is never any real advantage. In long wood paddles it’s not as much a disadvantage as some would till you. but it’s never an actually advantage either. But if she is, or wants to become a very strong paddler, a longer paddle reaches over the wide cockpit easier then a shorter paddle, and at 5 feet tall her occasional high-angle catch is not as steep as it would be from a paddle who is a foot taller. Simply math and geometry.
But a longer paddle is a longer lever, and the power and fulcrum of that paddle is a 5 foot woman. So her physical abilities are or should be the real focus. Not just what she is but what her goal is to become, and how much dedication is attached to that goal. It’s easy to make recommendations based on math, but that’s a bad way to proceed, simply because in all skill based activity it’s the person doing that activity that has the most potential for variability. Math discounts the human factor.

If she is of the type who wants to go out 1-2 times a month and only on the calmest days, not deal with currents or wind, and never get into water that is very cold the choice relaxes to some degree. Considering the type of kayak, as I said above, I’d assume she is not gearing up for rough water. At 5 fee tall, if in “urban housewife shape” (for lack of a better term) something with a light weight, slim shaft, smaller blades and probably 220 to 230 in length will suit her well. If shifting side to side to edge come easy for her and she will learn that skill you can drop 10CM and maybe even up to 25 CM from the length. If she is in “cross-fit wife shape” (again for lack of a better term) she would probably find a bit more length and a larger blade face to suit her better.

Too bad you are so far from me. I’d say come over and let’s go down to the water and I’d lend her about 7-10 different paddles to try out and see what she likes best. When choosing the ones you like, to do a good test you them should used them for 4-6 hours each so your impressions are based in not just a 1st feel, but how you like them once you have some time with them. And keep in mind that ALL paddles get easier to use as you use them more ---- simply because the paddle is not changing, but the paddler is. He or she is getting stronger and learning the sills better, which changes the overview of the paddles. A LOT.

In my ‘many dozens’ of paddles bought and sold or given away, along with over 3 Dz kayaks in the last 5 years, I have learned a few things about kayaks and paddles. And I have to believe I am far from being done learning too.

What I have come to myself (at this point) is an Aqua Bound Eagle Ray in Carbon 230 CM long, A Warner Kalliste full carbon in 240 CM, and a few GL and Alaskan (Aleut) paddles and 100% of the time when I go out I have one of those 2 euro paddles and some variant of a Greenland or Aleut paddle.
I have also found that most folks who use the GL paddles I make want them to be made with splits if they have kayaks of less then 16 feet in length but that’s not universal. Some prefer 1 piece paddles.
Stowing a 220 to 270 CM paddle on the for-deck of a short boat means the blade is going to be sticking way out to the front. Not a problem at all if the water is calm, but can be in the way in waves. Those made with a split break down. So a 7 foot GL paddle is only 3.5 feet long when stowed. Takes a bit of time to remove from the deck and snap together as opposed to grabbing a spare paddle and paddling instantly, so it’s a trade-off no mater what you get.

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My wife is 5’2", paddles a 22" wide CD Solstise GTS. I bought my wife a Nimbus Kiska 230cm paddle and she loves it.
TOURING PADDLES – Nimbus Paddles

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My neck of the woods is Haughton Louisiana @GregofDelaware .

@szihn My wife’s primary intrest is stability and calm waters. Note primary concern is stability. She learned to “doggy paddle” as a child but unfortunately almost drowned as a child. I’ve never seen her in water over her head in our 20 years of marriage. Her primary intrests are wildlife observation/photography and being outdoors in nature. For her, a closed in cockpit on a more sporty kayak would be a recipe for disaster. Story time, I’ll condense. We travel alot. We camp in remote places out west. Go to yellowstone/Rocky Mountains for an entire month every year in August. She is a vet tech. She absolutely loves wildlife observation and animals. Llamar valley in yellowstone is her favorite place in the world. She loves the outdoors.
I love motorcycles and the outdoors. My wife for 17 years was a “I’ll never ride on two wheels”. Three years ago…out of the blue on a beatiful Saturday morning…she said “Just take me around the block for 5 minutes I want to see what its about”. That was 9AM in the morning. We ended up in Arkansas and didnt get home until 8pm that night. She didn’t want to get off that Triumph Bonneville 120. Her request shocked me to the core. It was the best date day I’ve ever had and I’ll never forget it. Me leaning over the tank to make room for her, driving like a grandpa because I knew if I scared her, she’d never get back on. That bike was way to small for the two of us. Now…I’ve got a bagger that fits both of us and she can’t get enough. Still got the Triumph too.
We went to Florida a month ago for a winter getaway. Stayed at the Gator Den just outside Crystal Springs area. Primary goal was to observe manatees. Two days of hard looking via boardwalks and state parks etc…no luck. I told her we needed to rent a kayak and go find them. She was timid, but agreed to a tandem. I paddled her all over the crystal springs area and found the manatees for her, as well as a plethora of other wildlife. Several times, she was within 5 feet of a manatee. Just like the motorcyle, I saw her loosening up literally as she started to experience this. For her, staying within swimming distance of the shore all but alleviated her issues. She couldn’t believe the amount of wildlife and outdoors beauty she saw. I have told her for years that a kayak was the best way to see wildlife and experience the most beautiful areas around here. But it took the manatees for her to step outside her comfort zone. Now…she wants more…just like the motorcycle.
Plan is for her to have a good pfd, and only paddle in water that will not cause hypothermia. Clean, warm clothes in the dry bulkhead just in case. Easy exit from kayak in case of tip over…which it probably will never happen because “Stability” was primary goal. I didn’t want to get her a slow barge that would be hard to paddle. So we landed on the 12AR. No wide open water for her…always within doggy paddle to shore. Less wildlife anyways out in the middle of a large body of water. We have plenty of bayous, and lakes that’ll fit the bill. I’ve been paddling my Tsunami 145 for 10 years. I know of so many places to take her that I know she’ll love. After she gets acclimated with the kayak…first trip is bayou bartholomew to paddle to the castle. A very large Cypress tree only accessible by kayak or canoe. I also know of a stand/small forest of giant cane that I want to take her to…again only accessible by kayak or canoe. This cane forest has perplexed me for years. Google cannot find what this cane forest is. On a bright sunny day walking into this cane forest is like nightime. Insanely thick canopy that blocks out almost all the light. The trunks of these canes are 8 to10 inches in diameter. I’ve never seen anything like it and now I’ll get to take her there…once she is ready. She wants to collect some leaves to take to a botonist to ID the species of cane. If anyone knows of or has seen anything like that…let me know. I’ve grown up in the swamps of Louisiana…and nobody I know has ever seen anything like that. Bottom line, I’m exited about getting my wife into this…and its all her own accord. I’m not pushing her. If she decides its not for her…I’d never push her to do something she is uncomfortable with. Thx for the replies guys. I feel like I can order her a paddle she’ll love. Going to get a werner kalliste 220 small diameter.

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Excellent and outstanding report. I wish you both the best and most fun trips in your lives.
:slight_smile:

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Is the cane Arundinaria gigantea?

“This bamboo is a perennial grass with a rounded, hollow stem which can exceed 7 cm (2.8 in) in diameter and grow to a height of 10 m (33 ft).”

“In its native range, this bamboo is sometimes confused with introduced, non-native bamboos.”

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Outstanding. I see you have the 145 Tsunami, which is my favorite kayak. Your wife would appreciate the 125 Tsunami (12’9" x 26") or the 140 Tsunami (14’ x 25.5"). The older model of the 140 was only 24" wide, which was just as stable. My sister never learned to swim, but she had her 140, a PFD, and a 240 cm Kalliste. She traveled all over the upper Chesapeake in some rough conditions and never flinched.

I love to drive, so my wife and I would do unplanned road trips. On a Sunday night, I’d ask her if she wanted to do a road trip. The next morning we’d be up at 7:30, pack for ten days, stop for breakfast sandwiches and coffee and were on the road by 9:15 (avoiding morning work traffic), with the question: Which direction?"

One trip was up through Delaware, down the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel to Norfolk, Elizabeth City, the Outter Banks, High Point and Asheville, then headed home up The Blue Ridge Parkway (beliw sea.level to the highest peaks, and 95° to 62° in the mountains). Another trip was Kentucky to the Mississippi at Paducah and through Tennassee that combined the Quilt Museum and the Whiskey Tour. Florida and South Carolina. Other trips were to Wright-Patterson Air Museum and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Boston, Newport, Gloucester, among the most noteworthy to me. Typically 6 to 10 days duration, all planned the night before, with accommodations made on the road. Best way to travel.

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@Jyak
That sounds very similar to our roadtrips. We travel and do whatever we want, stay wherever etc. Thats the beat way to travel. We have a destination but no set time to get there. No set route etc.

@Eric_in_Santa_Clara

I’d say on average the diameter was at 6 inches with some larger specimens approaching 9 to 10 inches.
What do you think? This is my paddling buddy I work with. I took this picture of him. He’s the one that got me into kayaking 10 years ago. We found this together one day. We would research old civil war sites and paddle creeks and bayous with waterproof metal detectors…and just explore basically everywhere.

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The best feature of the kayak is the speed and efficiency. Canoes are equally adept for quiet exploration and are especially suited for carrying large loads. With the proper paddling skills, canoes are just as manueverable an often easier to get in and out of if you will be making frequent stops. When paddled in the appropriate environment, the modern canoe and kayak involve only the initial investment for years of enjoyment. Over time, it will typically cost more to get to a destination than you invested in the boat, paddles and gear.

The only drawback to a canoe is that most do not perform as well as the kayak in open water. On the other hand, the canoe is the perfect tandem boat if you want to stay connected with your partner. I personally think most paddlers can stay on station next to other boats much easier in a canoe.

A thread several months ago discussed the cost per mile of the investment in a paddle operated craft. Aside from upgrades and spare equipment (I keep all the gear when I upgrade; that gets pressed into service for guests), i mainly use two kayaks and one paddle. When considering the value of the investment, it gets cheaper the more times I paddle, and many places I’ve been are inaccessible by other boats. Unless you intend to traverse or explore areas of open water, even an inexpensive recreation kayak or canoe will serve the purpose. There is an added benefit of the rec boat, aside from cost, in that most are stable due to the wide beam and more forgiving design, as long as you select for a sound design.

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Maybe an introduced species of timber bamboo? Here are some links that may help. If the stem has a dark line along its length that could be a diagnostic feature.

Bamboo Gardens of Louisiana - Moso Bamboo - Giant Bamboo

Phyllostachys vivax Chinese Timber Bamboo | Bamboo Garden

Browse Timber Bamboo

I think your onto it/on the right track. Keywords being Timber and Bamboo.

Phyllostachys edulis (‘Moso’ Bamboo)

A pic I screenshotted off the internet. That looks alot like it. Could actually be the bamboo we found for all I know. The only two things that stand out to me is the color and the denseness of the stands of bamboo. I don’t recall any of them being that green even tho they are alive and healthy. But I’m not a bamboo expert either. Maybe they’re greener certain times of year or something like that. The bamboo timber we found is much closer together and noticeably darker once your into the canopy just based off the pics I’m seeing on the internet. None of the pics I’m googling looks nearly dark enough or close enough. In that pic we were on the outside edge before walking in on a bright sunny day and the phone’s flash is mostly all the light you see. Crazy dark and tall thick canopy with em all packed in like they are. However, you might have nailed it.

This is a good idea, IMO, as a paddler’s height is not the whole story. Some of us have relatively long torsos and some have relatively long legs. That can make a significant difference. Also, having a spare isn’t a bad thing.
One more thought … before ordering a crappy new one, why not take a look at your local Facebook Marketplace and/or Craigslist for a decent 220? You might find a pretty good paddle for a very good price.

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The Werner kalliste 220 small diameter shaft should work. Unless her hands are large for her size she will want the smaller shaft size. A shaft that is too large will tire her hands quickly.
I agree with buffalo Alice, you might find a mid range paddle for a good cost on C/L or Market place to get a benchmark for length and blade dimension.

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Absolutely. I have big hands so I logically select large diameter. However, I wonder if there is any valid reason for going to a smaller diameter shaft. If you compare the Euro paddle shaft to a Greenland paddle shaft, the Greenland in a much greater diameter. Condsider how many kayakers prefer the Greenland when executing technical strokes and rolls. I’m not an advocate for the Greenland paddle, but the long standing design sees to have endured the test of time. That should trigger the question of whether the design has endured due to tradition, lack of innovation, or a matter of terminal evolution - if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. When I handle my Greenland paddle, the persistent question in my mind is why the design seems to perform competitively with modern designs that are vastly different.

If so many advanced paddlers gravitate to the Greenland style paddle, is there a reason why there doesn’t seem to be much effort to experiment with reducing the paddle shaft diameter. In fact, the one thing about the Greenland paddle that I like is the large diameter shaft, mainly because the greater contact surface spreads the pressure point on the hands. My hands when using a Euro always end up with a callus on the same finger joint. Awareness of that allows me to shift the grip to reduce the pressure point (pain is an indicator that you’re doing something wrong).

I’m a “ham-and-egg” paddler with few fancy moves; I just swing the paddle and move the boat, so the grip pressure isnt significant. Think about going through the Horizontal Ladder that you’d encounter on an obstacle course. There’s a balance between preferring a large rung and a narrow rung, because the narrow rung concentrates the load, and a larger rung doesn’t allow full advantage of the finger/thumb grip strength. Each person needs to determine which size best suits his or her paddling technique. In other words, do you need greater grip control or would you rather have better straight line comfort. Castoff and I might have the same hand size yet prefer a different shaft diameter.

So the question about shaft size may be a preference to enhance control in manuevering, rather than straight paddling. The best solution is the size shaft that spread the pressure points on your hands yet give you adequate control during rolls, bracing, and sweeps.

All matters pertaining to kayaking are not doctrine. For example, @Craig_S and I have different paddle techniques, high angle/low angle, large blade/narrow blade, shorter paddle/longer paddle, feathered blade angle/unfeathered, slow cadence/high cadence. Yet he is the only person who I feel completely compatability with when paddling together. That doesn’t mean that I woukd want to race him, but we can paddle a comparable pace without feeling incompatible. I don’t believe that either of us would improve by adapting each other’s methods, yet we can improve by tweeking our technique to capitalize on elements that work for the other guy. Neither is looking for a class on paddling technique or the science of articulation. We just do what we find works best. Some things you must work out on your own.

As mentioned in another post, buy a cheap paddle and use it. @szihn loves his cheap whitecwater paddles. I suggested he graduate to better paddles, after he ended up with a trash can full of broken paddle, and since then he seems to have stabilized the paddle market. Sometimes, you might need more than one paddle for different conditions. Trade paddles with the people you paddle with. You might actually find that the switch works better for each. Don’t invest heavily in a paddle until you find the undesireable features that you would like to correct. Then use the lesser paddle for guest paddlers, or sell it. I keep mine for guests. One paddle that has no redeeming quality is doing service holding up tomsto plants in the garden. Ok, you got me - I don’t have any tomato plants or the paddle.

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Most GP shafts are ovoid cross section, so the grip is different from the round shafts of conventional blade paddles. They fit my small-palmed, long fingered hands much better. Also make it easier to maintain proper blade pitch.

And with a GP you never have to be embarrassed to discover you have grabbed a paddle in haste without looking at it and are starting to use it upside down. :wink:

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Well john, I cant’s say I love them but I didn’t hate them either. Once I started using the better Warner and Auqa Bound paddles I have not gone back to my cheepie paddles except for river padding. In the rivers I OFTEN hit rocks and I don’t really care if I do some damage to a $38 paddle.
My 3rd paddle (the mystery paddle) was my “favorite” when I had just a few because it had a strong shaft and very large blades which gave me good power and responsiveness, but the blades were not as strong as they needed to be and I struck one on a rock about 6" under the surface and split it. I tried to glue it back but that failed so it went to the dump. It was unmarked execpt for the word “Taiwan” and I think the reason it was cheep was it was some kind of franken paddle that they wanted to clear out and sell all their inventory. Now years later I see a lot of different paddles and how they are made and I know what it was. At the time I didn’t. It was just “a paddle”. It was a very large set of white water blades stuck onto a shaft that made it 8 feet long. It was heavy too, but that’s to be expected for huge plastic blades on a thick metal shaft. What ever the plastic was they made the blades from was not so good in the cold. I split it shoving off from an icy bank and the paddle slid over the ice and plunged into the water which I though was deeper, striking the rock. It had not yet been in the water and was air temperature from the truck ride to the water’s edge. By the time I broke it I had accumulated about 5 other paddles and I’d made a first (poorly designed ) GL paddle so I was able to keep the trip going, but at that point I’d started to pay attention to paddle designs and was seeing there was a lot to learn.
We don’t know what we don’t know. I was at that point in the learning curve back then.

I have mid size hands and I do find a slimmer shaft feels better in Euro paddles then thick shafts, but using both I would not say one is way above the other. In GL paddles the dynamic is not the same. Used correctly a GL paddle is held with 3 of the 4 finger over the base of the blade where it blends into the shaft (loom) So the shape of the hand is totally different in GL paddling then it is with euro paddles. You are correct in assuming the circumference of a GL grip is larger then even a large euro shaft, but when holding a GL paddle the hand is not holding a round. it’s draped over a curve which is closer to flat then round. The idea of hand strength tying to hold onto a round and keep it under control is simply not there. The best way I can describe the difference is to think of a round pipe stuck in the ground next to a piece of 2" by 1/4 strap iron stuck in the ground. If you were to try to twist the pipe your hand would slip unless you gripped it hard. But a light grip on the strap iron would be enough to keep it from slipping simply because the rectangle give you leverage and the round give far less.
So your hand grip SHAPE for a GL paddle is radically different then it is on a euro.

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Very true, now that you pointed that out. I can’t recall the exact oval dimensions of mine, but I believe the cross section is about 1.25 inches by 1.5 inches, based on a specific drawing, and the rough thicness of the material worked out well. As you note, the oval helps to orient the proper cant and adds just a bit of strength to the loom, yet being that the loom is typically between around 18 to 21 inches, strength shouldn’t be much needed.

The Kalliste has about a 1.2 inch diameter shaft, and I wouldn’t mind a larger dimension. I don’t grip the shaft very tightly to let the blades essentially self-center to resent the most perpendicular presentation. That also lets me feel when the paddle face is overpowered and begins to oscillate. That might suggests that the design is more intended for comfort. Conversely, an ovalized Euro would be designed with the greater width messured in the vertical plane, which would add no real strength advantage, but it would help to orient the blade.

You mentioned an interesting unintended dilemma that occurs with the Euro - paddling backwards. I’m at a loss regarding a fix for that, but a tall oval might be confortable for smaller hands. Some Euros have oval shafts. I’ve not used one, but can only say that I don’t miss the feature. After years of use, repetition has made the Kalliste feel natural, so I can’t even recommmend any changes other than length.

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