No experience with a wing, but I think its more for racing and high energy paddling, so exhausting you faster makes sense.
Have you tried a bent shaft paddle? I got a bent Kalliste hoping my forearms wouldn’t ache and it worked. I ran out of daylight paddling 23 miles, no pain.
I still have the Manta Ray, yep.
Great point, I will give those tips a shot!
Nope, I haven’t tried a bent shaft paddle. Never considered it actually but forearm soreness/ache is something I do get. It’s bad to the point where it’s difficult wearing a glove on my left hand because it creates more tension to grip the paddle than bare-handed. This may be the actual direction I may need to go, interesting!
Just ordered a Werner Athena Bent Shaft paddle. We’ll see if that works… I couldn’t find a Kalliste bent in stock and I’d consider myself a smaller paddler at 125lb, 5’8 so the Athena may be the perfect fit. I’m thinking this has a good chance of solving both the forearm issue and the exhaustion issue. I’m excited to give it a spin when it arrives.
I’m a big fan of traditional paddles. Light, easy on the body. Anyone wants to try one your welcome too, I’ll help you make one or discuss making you one
I’ve only made 2 Aleut style paddles. One is on our den wall, the other is a back up for a friend who routinely paddles 20+ miles per outing with a Euro.
He called a couple of days ago to tell me the Aleut had helped him when he started having shoulder pain in the middle of a trip.
I was tickled.
A critical aspect missing from the choices mentioned is paddle length.
The paddle blade will offer features such as stability in the water, slip vs grip, wind resistance.
The length is your gear ratio.
Some examples.
When I raced sprint kayak my paddle was 218cm. For surf ski or flatwater marathon, 215. Wing paddle, of course.
For play paddling in surf or rock gardens, or for general sea kayak coaching, 210.
For expeditioning…205. A heavily loaded boat I much preferred paddling at a higher stroke rate with a lower load per stroke. My favorite paddles for this were low aspect type.
For a spare paddle, I often brought a greenland paddle, just for a fun break. And yet for rock gardening my favorite spare was a very short whitewater…canoe paddle!
Would I ever use a wing for tripping? Yes, when I was going solo. Due to my fitness, during tripping with others I had to do whatever I could to slow down.
But my wife - not strong and only 5’2" - would much prefer going tripping with her small wing. Paddle length in this case? 196cm.
And over the years I noticed more and more of my friends going on multi-day trips using wing paddles, even though none had a racing background.
One very good reason for using a wing is for the exceptional stability in the water that the wing provides. No need to hold it canted (like greenland) or tightly for high or even low aspect flat paddles, one can hold onto a wing paddle with an extremely light grip, even just using fingertips. This can make for less fatigue over distance.
I disagree about the “high angle” technique being inappropriate for touring/tripping. A properly fitted paddle doesn’t require a super high upper hand position; long “low angle” paddles are PITA for a gear ration, no wonder the stroke rate is so low; really long “low angle” paddles can appear low angle referencing the paddle shaft, yet the upper hand position often isn’t low! And of course a long paddle at a low angle produces yaw.
You can use whatever makes you happy, but it is hard to argue about the efficiency of
the high angle technique.
One last point about any paddle used for tripping, and this is less about gear and more about rationalization. Over the years that I was coaching paddlesport, a common question I would get after someone would return from a long trip was what paddle they should buy, because their arms and shoulders suffered so much. I would ask what kind of workouts they did to prepare…guess what the answers were.
Your wing paddle is a mid/“Pro” size? I wouldn’t give up on the possibility of using a smaller wing instead.
But more importantly:
How many miles is the long distance you speak of? 50? 30? or 15? Is the same distance and effort something you already did regularly (painfree) using a Euro blade and sea kayak?
Did you get any instruction or study and practice the wing paddle stroke before jumping up to longer distances?
You just might need to check your technique and give the body some time to adjust to different body mechanics.
I am smaller, lighter, and doubtless older and weaker also, than you seem to be. Switching to a ski has caused me sore sitbones (possibly inflamed bursae). But the small wing blade (Gara Odin S) feels good. I had expected some kind of discomfort in shoulders or wrists or hands…nothing like that happened. Typical distance paddled this first season on the ski was 9 to 10 miles, with a few longer ones. I plan to stretch that next year, but only if the sitbone pain stays away. I finally installed a 1/2” seat pad on my next-to-last paddle of this year. We shall see what happens in the spring.
The Euro I had been using for years with the sea kayak was a Werner Shuna, 200 cm, after years of using longer paddles and progressively stepping down in length. My wing paddle is 205 cm (adjustable to 215 cm), but the sitting height and position differ from sitting in a sea kayak.
That’s like asking what kind of backpacker boots to buy because the hiker did not train for a trip by actually hiking in them with some weight in the pack, and their feet hurt.
How man sq cm or sq in is the blade in question? 6" means nothing because the length and shape of blade also play into this. if you have a surface area larger than 720cm2 I would definitely just get a smaller paddle.
I have the Think Powerwing at 655cm2 and its great for long distance paddling. I think most people buy too large of a blade. This is also why people like greenland paddles, they have a tiny surface area. In terms of absolute efficiency, a wing is king. Nearly everyone uses one that is too big though. I think that’s why Wing=Hard in many peoples minds. It isnt, it’s just means the blade is too big. Braca also offers blades into the mid-600cm2 surface area.
Also, wing can work fine for medium-low angle paddling. Oscar Chalupsky (one of the top athletes in the sport for the last 30 years) uses a relatively low angle, so wings are not “sprint/high angle only” paddles.
I have 3 Wing paddles. The last one I got is my favorite, small blades and 205 to 215 cm. I use wing paddles exclusively, have for many years. I do quite a bit of long distance paddling and the wing is the paddle that serves me well.
Agree about blade size of wing. I used a couple different sizes for sprint, but for surf ski or sea kayak it is more the “mid” size.
Another subtle difference is blade shape, high or low aspect. My favorite greenland paddle is 216, but measured from the center of effort to center of effort it isn’t much difference than my 210 low aspect flat blade.
Which can make a difference when choosing an appropriate wing, in that area is only one feature that will make the load tolerable. Two wings of different manufacture with similar area but different aspects will have different loads due to the outboard lever. My first wing was a huge, low aspect russian device, great once going but a beast in a start. My next was a large blade Epic, but the aspect was different and it was easier to get my stroke rate higher.
Interesting thing about Oscar C. He’s tall - 6’5"? And uses a 215 wing unless going into a headwind, when he will use a 210cm. Again, an example of how approaching paddle length as a lever that offers a specific load makes more sense than advice that references boat width and/or paddler height.
Good Day…I use the Epic Active Touring All Carbon-red shaft-at 210cm and the Werner Cyprus 205cm…I paddle between 80 to 100 times per/yr. Both paddles are great and not ‘taxing’ on the body. If you happen to purchase the Epic Active Touring All Carbon paddle I believe you will be very happy with it. It’s like holding a toothpick in your hands. You can also purchase one of these paddles at a reasonable price. I’ve been using my Epic since 2006 and love that paddle.
Amusing background regarding the Epic Active Tour blade design.
Virtually a copy of the pre-wing era paddle Greg used for sprint competition!
My personal favorite for expeditioning.
A GP is a great alternative if you’re trying to ease the strain on shoulders and wrists from longer days paddling. I’ve used one for quite a while focusing on lower angle paddling. Interesting link from Greg Stamer on technique using what he termed “the original wing paddle”… KayakVagabond » Blog Archive » Forward Stroke with Greenland Paddle? (gregstamer.com)
I agre with McImes, a smaller blade will make a world of difference.
I got a Braca IV 670 soft to do the Chattajack 31 mile race in under 6 hours and since using that I no longer have shoulder pain like I did with the larger blade paddles I had been using. I am considering an even smaller blade, similar to the Think if I decide to do a multiday stage race next year post-Covid.
Greenland or Aleut is another option. I’d like to try an Aleut myself.
– Andrew
I would paddle with what I am used to. I have a Fenn 4 that I train with, then I drop back to an Epic wing to race with. It takes a lot of strain out of me to use that smaller blade.
The real reason to stick with what you know is for changing water conditions. Once you are used to the twist used in wing paddles, it might make you expect other things from a Euro or Greenland stick.
A wing blade will allow for a slower cadence, especially in confused waters. I paddled with one person using a green stick and we hit an odd tidal patch. He had to maintain a furious cadence to keep up steerage. It exhausted him, but I was able to use less of a cadence and, therefore, wasn’t as wiped by those waters.
Are your Epic and Cyprus paddles the same length? I know the Epic is adjustable. I’m getting conflicting advice. One source told me that surfski paddlers use wings that are shorter than those used by kayakers on lakes and rivers. I would in a kayak on lakes and rivers. I have a 205 cm Cyprus and would like to try a wing. I was thinking the 200 -210 cm would be right.
My Cyprus is 210cm and the Epic is 205-215, usually set to 208cm, although I change to a longer lengh depending on conditions or just to vary the stroke angle during a longer paddle.
The V8 surfski allows for a closer catch and more rotation than my previous sea kayak. The Cyprus would feel a bit short on the kayak at times, so I’d say to follow the advice. If your buying, ask to try first, or if you can exchange for a different lenght after a couple of weeks.
I have a lot more experience with canoe paddles than kayak paddles, but I have three, with a fourth on the way, and I’ve done enough two bladed paddling to form some opinions.
If I’m paddling, I want to paddle. I don’t want to be too relaxed about it.
I prefer a mid size, high angle paddle. Small, low angle paddles are just a little too casual for my taste.
I paddle rivers. You need to make maneuvers on rivers. I can’t see using a wing paddle. I’m even thinking of going to more of a white water paddle.
