All around canoe for a one time purchase

I know this topic has been beat to death for decades. But I would like opinions from those who own or have experience with one or more of the following canoes. I’ve rented for more than 40 years, and have more experience with the typical Mad River and Old Town Royalex livery stock than I care to remember. I’m now preparing to make my first and maybe only canoe purchase, and would like some advice from those in the know.

My desires are for a light, composite material canoe capable of relatively easy portaging; in a length of 15’ to 16’8"; and capable of ticking off all the boxes - kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, as it were. Specifically a canoe that can be used for tandem use the majority of the time, but also capable of solo use on occasion; whitewater capable in up to Class III water; good carving and handling; down river runner; relatively fast on flat water; able to handle trips of up to 3 or 4 days; and of course for fishing and all around recreational use.

Most of my experiences have been on wild and scenic meandering rivers in the Midwest, and Southeast; mostly Class I water, the occasional Class II water, and some flat water canoeing. I’m preparing to move to Colorado in the near future to retire, and will be recreational canoeing, tripping and fishing more, and with more varied conditions - probably with more rocky conditions than I’ve experienced in the past.

I’ve narrowed my search to several brands and models, but would entertain others if the specs made sense. Here are my considerations so far, based on published hull designs, rocker, widths, lengths, weights, hull materials, reviews, etc. Most look to be a variant of the perennial “Prospector” design. Some are heavier than others, or more specialized in one area than another. But it’s a starting point for now:

  • Millbrook A.C./D.C. 16’2"
  • Esquif Canyon 16’2"
  • Esquif Mistral 16’2"
  • Swift Prospector 16’ versus Keewaydin 16’
  • Nova Craft Moisie 16’6" versus Prospector 16’
  • Souris River Skeena 16’8"

Since this may be my one and only purchase, I’m not that concerned about price, but more on overall performance for all my uses.

I welcome any and all input

I’ll be watching the replies with interest, but I would like to point out that Esquif also has a Prospecteur:

http://www.esquif.com/en/touring/prospecteur/

Eric

I think I would eliminate the Skeena. It has 6 inches of bow rocker and would be a handful on a windy lake. And, unless I’m missing something, the Esquif Canyon is not lightweight at 75 lbs.

Peter

Lets add a couple more…Hemlock Eagle would fit your needs nicely…if you are small stature perhaps the Eaglet. Jack of all trades. Comfortable and lightweight. Another possibility would be a Bell Morningstar if you can find one. Smaller at 15’6" but again, a general purpose craft. This could be a lengthy discussion if debate starts…:slight_smile:

The Kee has less rocker. The Prospector has more and higher stems and symmetrical rocker. This means the stern skids around more. Not a problem if you have good correction strokes and a bear if you are learning… Its not a very good lake boat relatively speaking… Its more of a river boat.
The Esquif Prospecteur is on steriods. It has some four inches of rocker fore and aft.
The Skeena has pronounced bow rocker and less aft and I have no idea why… Nor any experience with it. If you were not in the wind it might be fine…

I’d be happy with any of those boats…

I was just out with a friend who has a Swift Prospector - what a beautiful boat.

IMGP4695

I did a trip last spring with a friend who has one of the Souris River boats. I’m not sure which one, but it did it all

Running Attean Falls - Joe and Jule

Crossing Attean Pond - Joe and Julie

@pgeorg said:
I think I would eliminate the Skeena. It has 6 inches of bow rocker and would be a handful on a windy lake. And, unless I’m missing something, the Esquif Canyon is not lightweight at 75 lbs.

Peter

I agree the Skeena’s extreme rocker might create less than optimal handling for some uses and conditions. Any thoughts around symmetrical versus asymmetrical rocker hull designs for soloing in reverse? Like the Millbrook AC/DC?

No feedback yet on the AC/DC. Is the boat and user population just too small, and/or the demand for this type of boat? Or is John Kazimierczyk’s Millbrook Company just too specialized, as well as the AC/DC’s hull design for my intended use? The forum comments I’ve seen have been nothing short of spectacular. But all seem fairly dated, and very limited. I need to reach out to “Kaz” for hull specs not published on his web site.

And the Esquif Canyon does weigh in considerably more than I would prefer. I was kind of overlooking the weight, given Esquif’s T-Formex hull material on this model. Its durability let it slip into my list, even though its 25 lbs. more than my ideal target weight. I’m willing to accept hull scratches, maintenance and other drawbacks that come along with a light-weight, cloth fiber & resin composite hull, in lieu of a “plastic” hull material that can take a brutal beating, but one advantage that comes with a fairly high weight penalty. Scratch this one from my list.

What about Esquif’s Mistral 16-2, with 3-1/2 “ symmetrical rocker, and in their lighter Twin-Tex hull material at 58 lbs?

@stevet said:
Lets add a couple more…Hemlock Eagle would fit your needs nicely…if you are small stature perhaps the Eaglet. Jack of all trades. Comfortable and lightweight. Another possibility would be a Bell Morningstar if you can find one. Smaller at 15’6" but again, a general purpose craft. This could be a lengthy discussion if debate starts…:slight_smile:

The Hemlock Eagle is on my original list. But it didn’t make the cut when paring down my initial list of considerations. Thanks for bringing it up. Hemlock’s craftsmanship looks top notch, and they offer a lot of hull and trim options from what looks like a small volume, high quality shop. And I like what they’ve done with the recurved sides for improved paddling position and for carrying.

But the small 1-3/4“ rocker, and the “Prospector-ish” hull design made me think it might be better suited as a general purpose tripping canoe design, and less ideal for my varied use??? I realize there’s no one hull design that performs well on all water, and in all use considerations. I’m sure this canoe will track well and with good speed on lakes & flat water, and when loaded down. I’ve used many canoes over my life with similar hull characteristics. But when it comes to maneuverability, I was thinking a little more aggressive hull design (a bit narrower, deeper, and with more rocker?) that might be better for the occasional Class I & II water with fast moving currents, and be capable of handling choppy big wave, deep hole dropping, winding river conditions. Any idea how this boat would perform in those kinds of conditions?

Regarding your suggestion on a Bell Morningstar, another one on my original list, but as the newer Northstar Northwind 16. Again, it was not initially included in order to pare down my initial list of considerations…but in hindsight, it should have been included. As with the Hemlock Eagle, right or wrong in my criteria, the small rocker specs of 2-1/2“ bow rocker and 1-1/2 “ stern rocker, were why I didn’t consider it initially. But with its asymmetrical rocker, I was drawn to it for its crossover tandem and solo capabilities.

Did I say earlier I would love more opinions on the topic of rocker specification (min’s and max’s for an overall performer in any condition)???

And any real world experience with the newer Northstar Northwind 16?

@kayamedic said:
The Kee has less rocker. The Prospector has more and higher stems and symmetrical rocker. This means the stern skids around more. Not a problem if you have good correction strokes and a bear if you are learning… Its not a very good lake boat relatively speaking… Its more of a river boat.
The Esquif Prospecteur is on steriods. It has some four inches of rocker fore and aft.
The Skeena has pronounced bow rocker and less aft and I have no idea why… Nor any experience with it. If you were not in the wind it might be fine…

So from the sounds of it, for my intended wide conditions of use, you would recommend staying away from anything with 4 inches or more of rocker? Since I also plan to use it for rivers and slower moving or flat water?

And along that mindset, would you say that anything less than 2-1/2 inches is too little rocker? Say for a good level of maneuverability on rapids and faster moving water? And given my paddling skills are at least average or above average?

It sounds like you have a fair bit of experience and you probably already know this to some degree, but rocker is a value that’s tough to define. Not only is it not measured exactly the same way by every builder, but the profile of the rocker itself can vary from one model to the next. There was a recent discussion here about choosing a solo canoe which prompted me to point out that the old Mad River Guide (the more recent version of that model has a new name and for some reason I can’t think of it) has similar overall dimensions and exactly the same rocker specifications as the Novacraft Supernova. On the Guide (and it’s newer counterpart), the rocker is concentrated almost entirely within about three feet of each end, but on the Supernova, the rocker is basically continuous from the center to each end. The Guide tracks more strongly and the Supernova is more squirrely, yet people tend to think of both boats as being made for similar uses. The point is that it’s probably best to assume there’s a “gray area” around the edges of your stated preference for rocker, because you might just find that some boats have rocker specifications that are a little inside or a little outside those boundaries and don’t act quite as you’d expect. Just muddying the water!

I figured it wasn’t a science, but more of an art when designing and specifying rocker…and you’ve pretty much confirmed that.

I think my next step is to see where I can try out a few of the final prospects on my narrowed down list, and see which one I’ll settle on.

BTW, got a reply back from “Kaz” that his Millbrook AC/DC has been discontinued and is no longer available.

Thanks to all for your input. I’ve been cheating a bit by going to school on everyone’s experience and input in helping me make an more educated decision.