hmmm
Well i hope this one doesnt leak. I might have bought a different one had i known that. Yes used ww boats are abundant but i have not been able to find a used boat of the models i have been considering. This is based on only a few weeks but i have scoured every site and the summer is short here. If i dont like the dagger i can sell for same or more than i paid since i got it so cheap.
And actually my girlfriend is a competetive powerlifter so she is pretty close to same size as me so it works out well for boats actually.
It’s a good boat design. I have
lots of friends with that design and they all like it. Randed skirts will make it drier, but do tighten all the hardware sealing the numerous hull penetrations where much of the water comes from. Why Dagger insists on the backband webbing penetrate the cockpit rim, I’ll never get. That area is used as a seat by most and weakening it could lead to cracking.It might also be a source of ingress with lower quality skirts.
Dogmaticus
too funny
Thanks for the previous post.
So dog, are you a playboater or a river runner?
I’d imagine the latter would be better in surf.
Pyranha wants to market to older
paddlers returning to the sport, or the presumed many who would rather have an old boat design with modern features like hard chines and a higher knee placement. The Z One and Dagger’s Axiom are directed at that demographic. I have the Z One. It is a cool boat for certain things like large volume rivers. It tracks well across the line you want to take and is fast. The Axiom is also fast and has better volume forward. Both boats can surf on the fly better than my Fun. I know of only 2 other paddlers with them. I know many with Jives and a similar amount with RPMs. I don’t know what sales figures are for either the Axiom or the Z One but I would seriously question whether or not they would have paid for the mould with them.
That said, the Fun is a foot and a half shorter than the Z One and almost 2 feet shorter than the Axiom. On my usual class 3 or 3/4 play runs it is far easier to get on a wave, take the ferry angle I want-not the one the boat is best at-and is way more comfortable. Jackson and Liquid Logic get the comfort part of kayaking. I have 2 Pyranhas-love them- but it still is obvious the Brits maintain that “stiff upper lip” thing when it comes to comfort. (You are an NDK paddler, ya?) The hip pads feel like I have a golf ball strapped to my hip and the seat pad is uninspired. Compared to my Jackson creek boat the bulkhead is pretty sad. It works fine, but the Jackson outfitting is so much better. That said, no one has made a better hull than the Burn, try as they do. Jackson has had 3 attempts with the Hero and maybe the last go around comes close.
Look around you the next time on the river and see what people are paddling and playing with. Watch the ones who dominate the primary waves. They are the ones who get on the wave and stay longer. What are they paddling? Are they in a 9 footer from the past or are they in 6.5 to 7? Good paddlers can surf anything, but most of us mortals find it easier in a boat perfected for playing on typical features. You can buy a Fun for 350-400 bucks. Another sweet design is the Spice by Fluid. That class of boat is the most common but the other really large population are the Star/Project/Molan type boats, true play boats, not the hybrid river runner play boats. Do you know why that is?
Dogmaticus
River runner who tries to play.
I get my share of play in, but not like some guys I paddle with. Watching them is a pleasure. Matt has tested and or owned literally every sea kayak known to man. His request of the ideal river runner/ playboat in today’s parlance perfectly describes a Fun/CR/Spice/etc. In yesterday’s parlance it describes the Inazone/Jive/RPM. What he has, the Mamba, is a river runner with a semi-planing hull that can be played with. It’s a cool boat and something of a standard for it’s class. Given his mandate he is going to find out why it is that the typical day run class 3 paddler paddles what they do. Once one gets over the tippy, control related issues-and the Fun is pretty tame in that regard-they are just plain easier to paddle. Maybe not as secure as a Mamba, but for sitting in an eddy and wanting to get on the wave that one usually sees, they are just plain easier. For me anyway.
Dogmaticus
It’s not a contest
Too many creekers going down class 2 around here frankly for new paddlers - more river runner/kinda play boats would be nice to see in the white haired crowd.
If I were to get a new boat now I’d look hard at the Fun’s or some others not mentioned here. But anyone who wants to get started could do so fine with one of the Zone boats as well. Mine isn’t that long by the way - it’s a 220. The only way that boat gets to be 8 ft long is if I add a fake bow to it.
I’ll take the Crossfire
If you think that a gallon of cold water sloshing about your ankles as you start the drop is the “ultimate thrill”, you really need to take up open boating.
I’m actually thinking about it.
Canoes look really cool.
Dogmaticus
That’s a good way to start, but
in reality, used boats that are current are very common and not much more than boats of the past. I’m going to a river festival this weekend and I will try to make an honest assessment of what I see out there besides my own club scene. The river is a classic and the weather is expected to be great so my sample population will be large. You should try a Fun or a Spice. Great boats.
Dogmaticus
canoes…
Yes they are fun. I actually am a sea kayaker who dabbled in ww kayaking and the became a ww canoeist…and now going back to ww kayaking again, but i will never give up canoeing. Its fun and makes u a better kayaker
canoes vs kayaks
Decked boats have a clear advantage in cold water conditions and big waves. I would paddle a C-1 decked canoe more but I find the position uncomfortable for any length of time and cannot roll a C-1 reliably.
Canoes are more fun for me to paddle because I find it a more cerebral exercise. Moves have to be set up earlier. There are more strokes involved, and it becomes more important to utilize the current and other river features to best effect. But it can get tiring dumping the boat out frequently on bigger water.
I will frequently have both a whitewater canoe and kayak on my truck depending on what I am paddling, the weather conditions and water temperature, and whether I will be on my own.
The skill set involved is the bait
for me. The aesthetics of a canoe are a plus as well. I agree with you guys it will make me a better kayaker. Oddly, I took an oar frame rafting class a few years ago and it helped my kayaking quite a bit. There is no feeling like being off line with a loaded raft. knowing the river as intimately as rafters and canoeists is an amazing skill set.
Dogmaticus