best point in this thread
…may be that the real danger is from 'gators that have been accustomed to expecting food from boaters.
Very good posts on this thread!
And all very valid. I would only like to emphasize that there is a big, big difference in summer and winter 'gator behaviour. And mating season, re: big bulls! As stated, they are territorial, and some stray from the norm. Beyond that, exercise your free will!
Lifetime Florida boy.
Very good posts on this thread!
And all very valid. I would only like to emphasize that there is a big, big difference in summer and winter 'gator behaviour. And mating season, re: big bulls! As stated, they are territorial, and some stray from the norm. Beyond that, exercise your free will!
Lifetime Florida boy.
Exactly -just like bears or any other
wild animals
jack L
No, I have paddled there in all seasons
Just the past six or seven years it has been during the winter.
-And your are right about last year. they stayed in the mud it was so cold.
Unfortunately some of the crocs farther south where there is no mud to get under just froze to death
Jack L
Its Good To Hear The Other Side
Its good to hear the other side of the story.
Its an emotional subject and most seem to fall into the “paranoia” group, or the “denial” group
The statistics are so bogus. Just like shark attacks.
Take the number of fatal attacks, and divide by the population of the world.
Not many shark or gator attacks in outer Mongolia, or Kansas for that matter.
Kayak and surf instructors love to cite these numbers for newbies.
If you divide by the number of persons who are actually in shark or gator habitat the numbers are orders of magnitude different. Still tens of thousands to one, but very different.
And not all habitat is the same. Your chances of a shark attack are orders of magnitude different at New Smyrna Beach than 100 miles north of there
I lived in Florida for ten years, and spent summer vacations there as a child. I paddled many rivers, and lakes. I paddled very close to Gators, sometimes over 10’.
The only problem I ever had was with one that lived in a drainage pond at 22nd Street and the Crosstown Expressway in Tampa. About 7-8’. Not really very large.
It was very urban area, He was highly habituated to humans, and I even saw him follow an old bum who was walking down the sidewalk. He was stalking me while I was at the off ramp doing a traffic study.
UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS THEY CAN BECOME DANGEROUS!
Most of the attacks I read about are in urban areas with Gators that have become habituated.
I think those conditions are becoming more common in Florida. I used to paddle the Hillsborough River in Tampa. I passed a good size (over 10") Gator there most weekends. No problems. But so much canoe traffic on that river that I am sure he became habituated to humans, and he got bigger every year. It was probably a matter of time. I bet he got “removed” before he became a problem.
My rationale has always been that the chances of a auto accident are much higher than a shark/gator attack, and that does not keep me from driving.
But under certain conditions, like a dark rainy night, I drive more carefully. I slow down and pay more attention.
Hey JackL,
Earlier, you said, “Whatever . . . I have seen your posts on gators before, and you are petrified of them.
My advice to you is just don’t paddle in their habitat.”
Thanks a bunch for telling me my emotions and for your offer of unsolicited advice! Like I said, I was frequenting gator habitats long before you, and I’ll continue to use experience-based caution when I do in the future.
Notice the wise posts by Scombrid and BarraCuda - both experienced Floridians. I posted on this topic precisely because you project such a cavalier attitude about alligators while seeming to represent yourself as an expert.
Even as a child, I was witness to the mishaps of snowbird “experts” and I hope you will learn to respect these creatures and their potential for harm - instead of blowing off the comments of those of us who encourage caution.
So, be advised! I have even heard that alligators find QCCs to be kind of tasty.
Hey Angell
You seem to want to get something going here.
Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, but when someone who is so knowledgable on gators posts their first three warning pictures showing crocs, I just figured I had better say something to stop the scare tactics.
sorry if I hurt your tender feelings !
Jack L
what to do with big old Marker 87?
Feed him a clock…
Gee…
Guess I was just “lucky”.
I took my canoe to Florida just to paddle WITH the alligators. What a fantastic experience. I went out to the swamps around Cape Canaveral. I counted 18 alligators I could see from my launch point. They were swimming around a small island with a bird laden tree on it. I made sure to make noise at the landing, watch the water a bit before getting in the boat, granted it was a big canoe.
They are magnificent creatures, territorial but very shy. I made sure to not to get between them and the water. I wouldn’t have wanted to swim there, but they stayed a good distance from the canoe. As I would approach slowly, they would just sink, disappear and/or swim away. I sat there bobbing for a while and they pretty much ignored me.
A worthwhile experience.
Thank you - NM
Jack L
Did I say I want to get something going?
There are others here who found my post useful - Jack l, it was you who had to challenge and accuse me of scare tactics.
Alligators are not as aggressive as crocs, but they are capable of the maneuvers displayed in the photos - which were labeled as alligators and which I confess I didn’t scrutinize for authentic labeling out of a need to “one-up” somebody!
As far as your last comment, an apology combined with further insult only makes a horse’s ass. You are neither sorry, nor are my feelings tender . . . pissed over your arrogance, maybe . . .
Almost all of my encounters with alligators have been uneventful in terms of gator aggression. I have just learned to not turn my back on them nor sidle up to them.
But then, I always use front and rear tie-downs on the long boats, actually routinely wear my PFD and refrain from the arrogance of making presumptuous statements about knowing others’ feelings to the world - which could could be as dangerous as crowding in on alligators! We’re just two different people.
Note the dates . . .
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/jul/16/alligator-bites-off-hand-teen-press-conference/
Excellent video clip toward the bottom of the piece says it all.
Also this summer: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-06-23/news/os-ocala-gator-bite-victim-recovers-20100623_1_gator-attack-glass-bottom-boats-neck
We were paddling that same area about a week before, but headed for the take out as the sun got low.
It does happen . . . sometimes.
No sensationalism; just common sense.
Don’t want to get anything going
About your last statement.
If that isn’t hypocritical , I don’t know what is.
keep it going and I’ll bring up your old posts about the bass boater tying to “purposely run over your wife” at Lake james
I was biting my tongue above, not to, but since you want to keep going, I can too.
Yes we are “two completely different people” and I am glad of it.
By the way, we will be at Lake James today. Come on out and we will show you what a bunch of nice friendly people those bass boaters are, especially when you know how to enjoy their wakes !
Want me to gather up some statistics on the dangers of bee stings and shark bites? Since you are so paranoid of gators, I assume you might learn something from that tutorial.
Jack L
alligators
I work and paddle in the New River near Jacksonville N.C… This river is full of gators,some of them are very large. Only one gator attack has been documented that i know of and the man was teasing the gator with a fish. Avoid them and they will avoid you. By the way,the gator was going for the fish and got the guys arm by mistake. VF
There was never a bass boater who tried
to run over my wife on Lake James, so why would I ever have made a post on that?!!!
Your memory seems to fail you; you keep attributing feelings to me that I don’t have and now you are inaccurately trying to make light of an incident two years ago that could have gotten my wife killed?!!! (Remember, you were not there.) My wife continues to be fearful of power boaters. Do you want to make light of that?
Forget about 'gators - you are using poor judgment insulting people in that way while announcing when and where you are planning to paddle!
Further, why would I need “to be shown how” to enjoy the wakes of Lake James bass boaters when I can take my whitewater boat on the Nantahala for textured water fun?
If people on this forum want to write safety-oriented posts for the benefit of other readers, whether about alligators, sharks, front and rear tie-downs, PFDs, or any other thing that might not interest you, why don’t you just stay the f@&# out of the discussion, instead of trying to insult the integrity and motivations of the poster and the worth of the message?
Over the course of this topic, your posts have described me as, “fear(ful)”, “petrified,” using “scare tactics,” having “tender feelings,” being “hypocritical” and “paranoid,” while accusing ME of trying to get something going. Anybody stupid enough to poke and prod an old combat vet, not expecting a full-on engagement just HAS to be stupid enough to prod an alligator past its limits of tolerance!
True, Vaughn . . .
There is only one documented alligator attack in North Carolina. This link will take you to a statistical breakdown of attacks, by state: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea_all_att-health-alligator-attacks .
Notice how Florida is way out in front and that there are few actual fatalities, although lost limbs are not uncommon.
In earlier posts, I did not cover the topic of particular risks to children, so here’s a link to that: http://www.marshallbrain.com/cp/alligators.htm .
This article: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0912_050912_alligators.html says that human-alligator encounters are increasing in the southeast. It also alludes to the fact that humans abuse alligators more often than vice versa. The advice of other posters in this string to just leave alligators alone is probably most useful of all - that and to not turn your back on them.
Oh, now you are real PO’d
seems to me you are the one who brought up PFD’s, tie downs, etc while we are talking about gators.
I also was wondering how long it was going to take for you to bring up your war time heroics.
You seenm to love to do that in your posts, but you also seem to not realize that there are dozens of others here who have done their time, (many like me who did it long before you) but don’t come on here bragging about it.
You also might want to note, that my first reply above was near the top of your string, was just correcting your post, and trying to undo some of the fear that you so diligently researched. -Then you took offense that I should have the nerve to correct
you.
Have fun on the Nanty, but watch out for those Duckies !
Jack l
The last person who seemed hellbent to
insult posters, no matter what the consequences, was banned from the forum!
Jack, I said nothing about wartime “heroics” but you seem not to get it. I brought up the other topics because I see a connection between some of your other practices and your casual attitude about alligators. This concerns me, because there are others on this forum who come here to learn about safe practices on the water - and you seem to set yourself as an example to follow.
Beyond that, no matter what I say, you seem to have to retort with directed personal insult with an air of superiority, whether it’s my ideas, the (less-expensive-than-yours) equipment I use, or a question I raise about how to handle a dangerous situation!
This redirects readers’ attention from the important-to-the-poster topic at hand to the poster. It’s a mean-spirited tactic that serves nobody, except maybe the would-be bully that made the insult. Further, it discourages others from feeling safe to share on the forum! You have a lot of gall when it comes to publicly flogging somebody in the safety of an online forum.
Since we paddle the some of same waters, if we cross paths, let me suggest that you do not crowd me the way you do gators. If you are inclined to let your mouth follow the same impulses behind your fingers on the keyboard, here’s some advice. Keep your distance from me: I’ll go my way and you go yours.
So, go ahead and have your last insulting word; I’m done with this post.
Boo