I have an ex-wife …
… who once said to me while I was watching golf on television, “I don’t see what’s so hard about knocking that little white ball into the hole.” There are people who feel like that about paddling. And they are often so called “active learners”. The problem with active learning is that it is common for such people to be completely unaware of how badly they are doing the activity and even when they sign up for instruction they think they already know it all. I cringe when we get someone like that in our pool classes. I try to accomodate their learning style but that doesn’t they are not a PITA.
maximising a learning experience
When you have people with experience answering your question it’s worth taking some parts to heart. One of them is that of the long list of basic skills you enumerated it helps to have some minimal proficiency before hand for the more than basic skills.
In that class a large part of what you’ll be doing is listening,listening is necessary but for all the topics covered actual paddling will not be a large part. Something as simple as putting on a sprayskirt can use up learning opportunities. Something as simple as differentiating a forward stroke from a sweep stroke can occupy a lot of the details in learning rescues as you wander around trying to get to your partner needing rescueing.
The paddling portion of your two day course is often taught in a eight hour course, I did it in two four hour courses.
The intense social and intense immersion aspect to the two day course is exciting and fun, but if you’ve taken any other kinds of courses that cram a lot into a little time you know,and quite likely your wife knows, a lot isn’t retained.
This isn’t to say it’s not a good idea,two day courses meet the customers requirement to learn a lot on one weekend.
I suspect your wife would like to remain in an optimum comfort zone for learning and you like to push it. One is not more effective than the other over a stretch of time.
I can tell you from an instructors and students perspective that people do NOT learn when they are outside of their comfort zone too much. WHATEVER the basis of that discomfort.
Ammunition will not remove that discomfort.
sign me up
Sign me up as an “active” learner.
My ramp-side kayak introduction went something like this:
- Put on this skirt
- Watch how I get in and out of the boat
- Now get in
- Attach the skirt
And then when we were afloat my older brother says:
- “Okay. Now tip over and get out of the kayak.”
I asked why and he said it was better to learn how to get out of the kayak at the ramp instead of taking a chance on dieing at first rapid.
No statistics
– Last Updated: May-05-06 4:56 PM EST –
but my first "real" assisted rescue was a husband & wife in their brand-new composite boats in perfect beginner conditions. She had flipped in the middle of the lake, kept trying(unsucessfully) to get back in, and he was paddling in circles offering not-so-helpful advice.
I'll also say that I've had more accidental capsizes on flat water than in wind & waves. It doesn't take much -- you turn and reach for something, or reach out to catch something, and over you go. Do a good draw stroke and forget to release, and you could end up wet.
You don't need the whole shopping list of skills right away, but knowing the basics of helping each other would be smart.
I read about wet exits and reenters
on p.net years ago. I thought it was a good idea, so I went to a pond and taught myself how.
Part of what Ray teaches are different rescue techniques.Valuable skills to have , as Angstrom says.
ps. personality differences
some folks feel the person they learn from matters, while you are looking for two days of learning, your wife might be looking at two days of learning from someone she knows nothing about. I’ve heard from some women that an instructor with a strong authoritarian or military style manner gets wearing when they’re in a challenging situation. These basic skills and rescues aren’t challenging but learning anything new is.
Comfort zone
While that may be true about people not learning if taken too far out of their comfort zone - the other side of it is that they will never progress if they stay in it all the time either. Some people have VERY narrow comfort zones.
“a “trick” people do for fun”
– Last Updated: May-05-06 5:52 PM EST –
Wet exits are NOT optional with kayaks.
First day I put my girlfriend in a closed deck kayak (she started with a sit-on) I had her wet exit. It was not optional, and certainly not a trick for fun. Once I got her over that, and comfortable doing that, she immediately began working on re-entry with no prompting as it was obviously needed next.
Kayaks flip - sooner or later. Someone who has practiced exits will be OK. Someone who hasn't stands a good chance of panicking, getting injured thrashing around getting out, or worse. Happens every year. Some people just freeze when they flip too. Very scary. No way to know how people react until they do a few.
A wet exit is more than just getting out too. It's getting out calmly, in a controlled manner, while maintaining control of kayak and paddle.
It is a simple skill. A necessary skill.
Sorry for the mini-rant, but people who go out in kayaks and feel no need to learn the most basic skills are definitely a pet peeve.
Actually, I feel the same way about rolling (a BASIC skill) if you're in sea kayaks - but I'll back off and stop there to avoid the barrage of posts from the "I've been paddling for decades and I don't roll and I'm just fine" types, and the others who are just avoiding it out of some misguided fear or thinking it to be "advanced".
No need to preach that to you anyway as you've already said you plan to take rolling lessons, so once you get it the odds she will want to will go up. It's just a lot easier than the other recovery options. My girlfriend went from zero interest in rolling to "I want to be able to do that" the day she saw me get my first rolls - in HER kayak! First day she paddled a closed deck kayak, same day I had her do her first wet exits...
Back to the original question: Lessons? Hmm, can't help you there. Haven't taken any yet. Sounds like a good idea though! I could probably use some...
PS - Statistics? Maybe as a sleep aid, not for motivation. Firepower? You'll never "win" in a battle with a female, and more ammo just ups the destructive potential!
Statistically speaking
– Last Updated: May-05-06 8:00 PM EST –
Years ago I read this research, but as I seem to be a bear of limited RAM, I cannot still quote you the bibliography. So after I get lambasted from other PNetters for this contribution, and you decide it is sort of what you may be looking for, perhaps the BCU, ACA, or AWA can help with more up to date data and interpretation.
The paddlers in the middle of the bell curve are the safest paddlers. They have a certain level of expertise, gained a variety of ways. They have obtained a comfort zone and are content to paddle within it.
The people at the extreme end of the bell curve have a higher death rate. They have a very high skill level but are continuously pushing thier limits and paddling in extreme scenarios of one sort or another, weather it be storm paddling, extreme white water, etc. They put themselves in unforgiving stituations and it can catch up with them.
The other end of the bell curve is the beginner. No real skills or knowlegde of what to do, what can happen, and what to do if something goes wrong. In tennis you can bat the ball around and have some sort of fun, but whats the worst that can happen if you don't recieve instruction. You may look silly, you may hit the ball into the juice machine, you may even get a blackeye from missing the ball completely. You mention that maybe one or two of the topics covered at the kayak lesson may be life threatening topics. The reality is that kayaking is a skill based sport that has real consequences, and as such, if you are not competent in most of those topics, i.e., with a certain base knowledge and a minimal skill set, the odds of you putting yourself into a situation that may turn tragic are much higher than if you took a lesson. Lack of golf lessons means you chase your golf balls all over the place and embarass yourself. Lack of kayak lessons can/may put you needlessly in harms way. Things happen, they happen quickly, and they multiply exponentially. A needless death can easily be prevented by a paid lesson with a qualified instructor.
Anyone can pretty much get into a boat and make it go. But without knowledge of the strokes one can easily "trip" over the paddle trying to stop or by catching an edge and having it slice in and pull you over with it. Its easy to "miss" a stroke by not getting the blade in the water or or not realizing the wrong angle of your blade. Any of these and many other simple uneducated rookie mistakes can happen and cause someone to dump the boat.
Now your upside down in unfamiliar territory, surprised, shocked by the suddenness of capsize an the cold water temp, afraid of the unknown, and panicked. This is where smart people turn stupid, calm people turn frantic, and a dreamy day can turn into a nightmare. The capsize person begins to flail about in the upside down kayak in a wild survival mode panic. This is where paddling intellect is supposed to win out over survival instincts, but if team "Paddling Skills" is unarmed, team "Survival Instincts" wins out and does exactly what you are not supposed to do. (Those of you who have taken the lesson know exactly what I'm talking about, those of you who haven't are wondering what the heck I'm talking about). Many PNetters have seen this and its not a pleasant sight, to one degree or another.
Person may finally make it out of the boat, exhausted, cold, still surprised, no less panicked, embarassed, bewildered, and the real challenge still lies ahead. Wheres the boat going? Its only a 5 knot wind, why is it blowing away so fast? Why are you taking so long to get my kayak for me, don't you know how to manuever your boat. I know its at an awkward angle for you but hurry up I'm wet and cold. Grab it and bring it back here for me. What do you mean you can't hold onto my kayak while you paddle your kayak back to me. Hey hurry up because your kinda floating farther away from me as you're trying to figure it out, and without my PFD zipped up I'm kinda falling out of it. This cotton t shirt under my windbreaker is'nt keeping me very warm and I feal like I'm losing energy and falling out of my PFD. I'm having trouble staying above water, losing energy so fast, can see the sun when I'm looking up through the surface of the water,looks like the kayaks up there but I can't really tell any more...why can't I reach my PFD, why am I getting so tired...
Thats just one version of the simple little variables that may exist and take place. Its not what happens everytime a beginner goes out, but it is EXACTLY one of the ways beginners die kayaking. We've all heard the stories, read the accident reports, and looked at the ground and shook our heads.
Not everyone who does'nt take a lesson is going to drown. Fact is the vast majority of them won't. But we as humans were not designed for water survival, and we just don't do well dealing with immersion, therefore you can't always learn from your mistakes.
If she is still opposed to lessons, ask about female only clases. YOU do not want to be the one teaching her after you have had a lesson and she hasn't, trust me on that one.
Hope this helps to some degree or another, its as close to any kind of statistics I could get anyway. Cheers
Nicely put. Amen! Amen!
Bell Curve
True enough, but maybe more for WW paddlers?
The curve is far from evenly distributed.
You can find “extreme” sea kayakers, but they are very few, tend not to travel alone, and have redundant levels of safety from skills, proper gear, and experience with them all. Deaths from paddling related mishaps in this elite group are VERY rare.
There a thousands of beginners. They tend to be where you get the most numbers in the accident statistics.
speaking of statistics
We keep hearing about statistics, but can anyone cite a source that shows the mortality rates for recreational sports?
yep
I should have stated that more clearly,if there isn’t enough of a challenge it’s boring. I took a bunch of open bay,“intermediate” courses from Sea Trek and UCB ten yrs ago that were before the ACA two day basic curriculum. Challenged me enough.
Now that’s some
insight right there as to what can happen. Thanks sternsquirt.
You may be right about the ammo piling up to retailiatory efforts, but I don’t ever show up to a gun fight with a knife. (We don’t really have those).
Real life story
Just checked back in on this thread, and interestingly one thing your wife said was an almost exact match for what I’ve heard from starting out rec boaters inland around here. The part where she indicated that anything to do with getting back into the boat or upright was a trick of sorts, no real life use? I run into this all the time - newbie kayakers who are thinking of paddling mostly on quiet lakes and rivers truly not connecting the dots to consider the possibility of a capsize. And these are not dumb people, some of them are even long time canoists. But it seems that the old WW hands or people who live near open ocean are the only ones who universally make the connection between being on the water and flipping over.
I don’t even start to understand it, but it is surprisingly common. She is likely being quite sincere in thinking she can discard that risk.
I am also going to return to the idea of finding her an all-women’s class. I suspect there are some issues about being over or upside down that she is unwilling to voice to you, or maybe to a bunch of guys. The class instructor has a good point about why to learn as a couple, but it assumes that you are both equally ready. That’s pretty clearly not so here.
No stats. But if you want a couple of experiences…
there are a group of women who paddle calm lakes and rivers around here and were out last summer. One of them reached for something, went over, and needed to be put back into her boat because there was a moderate current on the river. No big rocks, but we are not talking a strong swimmer. The only reason she was able to get back into her boat was that one woman had come to some evening skills sessions was in the group and knew how to muster a few people to help stabilize the swimmer’s boat and get her back in. Out of approximately 9 or 10 women on that trip, most all 45 and up, the primary reason this didn’t escalate into a lost boat and a stranded swimmer was just one woman in the group who had learned what to do.
One night a couple of springs back our local club was out on an early season paddle - air warm but water cold like in the high 40’s. Encountered two random paddlers launching nearby and kept them within the rear of the group. Both of the paddlers flipped over in what should normally have been pretty unflippable boats - some kind of real bargey rec boat - a few members of the club hauled them out of the water and got them on land and warmed up. Both apparently were at least hypothermic, one was more so. At least one and maybe both would have been statistics in the papaer the next day had the club members not been there and known how to rescue them.
The point is, these aren’t statistics because someone knew what to do. If you want to really get her attention, just buy the book “Deep Trouble” published by Sea Kayaker magazine and leave it out on the coffee table. Meanwhile, take the course so that at least one of you has an idea of what to do.
And Then…
There are folks like me who prefer to read as much as possible and then go out to do it. I am not adverse to coaching. However, I tend to learn physical things faster than the average person and get bored in large classes. I hate classes full of lecture and some doing. I also tend to integrate better when I have read stuff thoroughly and then work on doing it.
sing
There is lots of stuff out there.
Just do some googling. For example:
http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/9/2/117
Flipped right away
– Last Updated: May-06-06 1:16 PM EST –
First time I finally got in a boat, several years ago, I had been dreaming, I mean drooling over some gorgeous boats that I could never afford. I was sure I needed some $2500 dollar Perception or Necky. Don't even remember which ones now. Anyway, my husband (though we were still just dating) and I went to the outfitter and rented two long, skinny, beautiful boats. I had read enough to sound like maybe I knew what I was doing (though clearly I did not) but they let us have whatever we wanted. So neither of us had ever been in a kayak (I had only rowed crew) and we had never held a double-ended paddle. Both rented boats over 16' (I was used to long boats, right?) and then put them out on a river we could not handle with all kinds of rocks and a fair amount of whitewater. What morons we were! My husband did manage to stay afloat but I caught a little rapid the wrong way and went right over. Managed to get myself and boat to shore but my ignorance really showed when I discovered we had no bilge pump. Yes, the shop should have sent one but I didn't KNOW enough to ask. So we turned the boat over and emptied what water we could but with no skirts (didn't know what they were either) and already riding low in the water it made for a long paddle home. Turns out we had also set a course for ourselves that was 11 miles long. My dad had moved the van down to the end of the course and gone home. No cell, no radio. Just had to get to the car if we wanted to go home. Maybe not the best starter run. By the end I thought my head was going to explode (didn't bring much water either) and I felt completely water logged with all that sloshing around in the cockpit.
I know it's not a statistic, but experience and classes as well make you a better judge and thank goodness a little more cautious. We didn't know WHAT we could handle and made one poor choice after another. We BOTH wore our PFDs the whole trip and continue to do so. Atleast we got that right.
But tell your wife it is a startling experience. I was not expecting it as we thought it would be a walk in the park and a nice afternoon couples activity. Kayaking is awesome now and we didn't let that run us off but if someone timid (like some of the folks I've been out with in group paddles) got turned upside down like that near rocks, gators, obstacles, etc they might just not want to head out again.
Class you found sounds cool. Wish we had a chance like that when we got started. Wish someone at the shop would've whacked me in the head. Whatever you do, just don't give up. You'll find what works for the two of you.
I would love to have you in class.
Then maybe I could learn some things as well. And for what its worth I tend to learn the way you describe.
If 50% of a pair is 100% opposed…
to taking lessons, 100% of you will be in trouble if something happens on the water.
Doesn’t have to be full-on lessons right away. You could start with a few of the basics, learned from watching videos and reading books. And PRACTICING.