An empty wagon makes the most noise

There are people, on this forum, that not only have full wagons, they are big full wagons.
But there are also some very noisy wagons.
My wagon isn’t as full as I’d like, and it’s lacking white water, but it’s far from empty.
Colorado River- Loma to Westwater
Colorado River- Hittle Bottom to Moab
Colorado River- Potash to Spanish Bottom (twice)
Green River- below Flaming Gorge
Green River- Ruby Ranch to Mineral Bottom (3 or 4 times)
Green River- Mineral Bottom to Spanish Bottom (3 times)
San Juan River
Buffalo River
Niobrara River
Upper Missouri River
Rio Grande- Texas-Mexico border
White River- below Rangely
Yampa- below Steamboat Springs
Dirty Devil River- entire length
Platte- Brighton to Fort Lupton
Boundary Waters- four trips
Lake Powell- two trips, one in a seakayak one in a canoe
A few more assorted day trips on rivers.

When I was younger I dreamed of trips in the North West Territories and the Yukon, and I might still do one before I’m too old, but it’s looking unlikely.

SOTconvert, you’re way too invested in this. Seriously, it’s the internet. If you’re this impacted by a couple of comments and a thread on the interwebs, take a break, get outside, and go paddle.


I got a sayin’, “It’s all good!” That applies to different water features: rivers, lakes, swamps, all over the country, and also to different boats - canoes, kayaks, rafts, ducks, sit on tops. I tend to avoid large open bodies of water (great lakes, ocean), as I haven’t developed that skill set or have the boats for it. I also like my scenery to change so I tend to stick to shorelines. So I’m incomplete, got some stuff to work on. That’s okay.

Some craft are better suited than others for a particular place. Yet I often make due- meaning I’ve rented boats from liveries , or used a boat in an environment that it wasn’t designed for (another form of suffering needlessly). In those situations, I frequently keep the distances short because it often involves a ww boat on flat water. Lately, comfort in the boat has become a much bigger priority. Put me in a skinny boat designed to go straight and fast and I struggle with it. A lack of experience on my part. So it’s okay to not be good at everything. You’re allowed to learn new stuff.

95% of my paddle days are on day trips and the vast majority of those day trips are under 10 miles in length. Most of the other 5% (multiday) happened before the age of 30. Somewhere along the line, I got a bit lazy. Repacking the gear daily, sleeping on the ground, simply required more effort, prior planning and became less appealing.

Sometimes I’ll focus on certain stretch of river. When I was younger, I was paddling a lot on the New River Gorge (WV) between Cunard and Fayette Station. I think I logged about 400 days on that one stretch. The truth is though, I don’t really feel confident with that stretch and the class IV stuff anymore. I didn’t stop paddling, I just changed it up to “easier” stuff.

I enjoy my camper with its comforts. I’m “glamping” more than I’m camping. I also tend to end up on “unfettered” streams, with no lottos or river permits that require competition to get. Perhaps when I actually get retired I’ll think more about overnights and extended river trips. Perhaps an oar rig will be in my future for western rivers.

I’ve paddled in 33 states. Hope to knock off another 3 this summer- Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico and revisit some- TN, NC, CO.

There’s good water everywhere. The most important thing, isn’t your style of boat or skill level, but your attitude. I enjoy interacting with other folks who are passionate about paddling- even if their style is different than mine. I can learn more from diversity than simply sticking with the folks I usually paddle with. In any given year, I probably paddle/shuttle with at least 100 different people.
If your wagon squeaks as it rolls down the river that’s fine by me. We can be different and enjoy the diversity. It’s all really just about “messin’ around in boats”.

What makes it “all good” is if you: wear a pfd, dress for immersion, and enjoy the pbrs when you’re off (not on) the water.
SYOTR (see you on the river), Tony


Your posts remind me of facebook. I don’t do facebook.

1 Like

I don’t do facebook either.

An empty wagon makes the most noise.
That means people that talk big usually are not.
People that act like they know it all, generally know very little.
I don’t put other people down because I don’t get any pleasure out of it.
Apparently some of you do.
If you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything.

Let me say this nicely. Please go away with your diatribes about not much.


In my estimation the best way to be labeled a troll or unwelcome is -

-respond to every single comment. Choose the important ones that add to the discussion.
-respond to people trolling you. This only leads to more trolling and the cycle will never stop.
-post more than a few times a day. If you’re posting 10, 20, 30x a day, especially in one thread, that’s a red flag.
-dismiss the valid advice you were given
-continue to ask for advice after reasonable answers have been given that satisfy your question
-defend not changing your position with something along the lines of “ive been doing this forever” (i.e. not being open to advice after asking for it. clearly you dont know everything if you’re asking for help. Be open to other’s perspectives if you ask for them)
-With physical things like sports, refusal to accept you may be the problem (not the ‘whatever else’. clearly if other people are successful at something, their training is a large part what has made them successful. Often more training is the answer.)

This isnt directed at SOT or anyone. I have seen this correlation across many different forums. Over posting and dismissing the old guard is a good way to get on the wrong side of a forum, whether its paddling, paintball, construction, plant identification, guns, or whatever.

its the behavior, not the venue


Makes Noise…
Yes, he is correct.