Any Good Sales On Semi Drysuits?

Looking for a good sale on semi drysuits–preferably a two-piece. Didn’t see anything at NRS. Austin Kayak had a few deals. Does anyone know of anything else on clearance?

Depends on your size. I know of a place that has a some on sale, in Hyde Park, NY. :wink:

See you on the water,
Marshall
The Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
845-228-0595 main
845-242-4731 mobile
Main: www.the-river-connection.com
Store: www.the-river-connection.us
Facebook: fb.me/theriverconnection

Well maybe I’ll just have to click on one of these handy links and see what’s what.

What is the point of a “semi-dry” suit? Do you end up “semi-dead” after capsizing in cold water? It seems to me that it’s the equivalent of putting an elastic seat belt in your car. It may give you a feeling of security, but it’s going to fail when you really need it.

@bnystrom said:
What is the point of a “semi-dry” suit? Do you end up “semi-dead” after capsizing in cold water? It seems to me that it’s the equivalent of putting an elastic seat belt in your car. It may give you a feeling of security, but it’s going to fail when you really need it.

That’s my feelings also. If I do buy a better paddling jacket in Gore Tex I’ll probably buy a kokatat switch zip. Then I could always add pants later for another drysuit.

I do have kokatat Gore Tex jacket with the zipper in the front. Forgot the name of it. I can use in warmer fall weather. I do have a cheaper stolquist for a wind breaker when I first started but my elbow still gets wet.

I’ve not been happy with dry pants, but maybe should try integrated socks. In cold weather I use a full-on dry suit. When the water warms up a bit I use a farmer john, dry top combination for extended rolling sessions.

Has anyone here tried Mythic drysuits? They are not fancy, but may prove adequate as a cheaper alternative:
https://mythicdrysuits.com/

bought a mythic suit, have used it, and loaned it out to others, fully functional, it works! If you’re looking for extras go elsewhere- i probably could have gotten by in a large rather than a xl suit which is really baggy on me. So sizing is a bit different than other manufacturers- own palm, stohlquist, and kokotat and all of those suits are xls and fit me better. No complaints, I was looking for a cheap back up suit or one that I could loan out and mythic fits the bill.

@bnystrom said:
What is the point of a “semi-dry” suit? Do you end up “semi-dead” after capsizing in cold water? It seems to me that it’s the equivalent of putting an elastic seat belt in your car. It may give you a feeling of security, but it’s going to fail when you really need it.

Kokatat’s Surge is a two-piece GoreTex drysuit labeled “semi-dry” only because the neck gasket is neoprene; Wrist gaskets are latex. Reviews indicate that except for a bit of wet around the neck, the suit keeps the wearer dry during immersion.

How dry can neo gaskets keep you? They don’t even work well on my paddling windbreaker at the wrist?

"I’m president of Mythic Gear. Thanks for this discussion. The fabric of all our drysuits is a three-layer nylon laminate with a microporous membrane – essentially the same basic description as the standard breathable/waterproof fabric from the well-known brand, but ours is from a different supplier. It’s medium-weight stuff, approx. 190 gm / square meter, thread size 200 Denier. The fabric in three of the models (Sobek, Enki, Taruba) has a moisture vapor transmission rate of 4,000 gm / square meter / 24 hrs. This isn’t the best performance on the market, but we’re offering the lowest priced drysuits out there, and of course certain compromises are involved. The main benefit of the Kiwa suit is a different fabric spec, with an MVTR of 10,000, i.e., 2.5X greater breathability. "

How does it work after using it a while or as it ages?

Latex gaskets don’t seam to be the greatest thing from my experience.

@PaddleDog52 said:
How dry can neo gaskets keep you? They don’t even work well on my paddling windbreaker at the wrist?

If you read my post, it says the wrist gaskets are latex. The neck gasket is neo and I guess how much water gets in depends on how long your head is under water. Guys who wear it while rolling gave it favorable reviews.

For me still leaves neck to leak. What we intend to do and what happens are two different things.

@bnystrom said:
What is the point of a “semi-dry” suit? Do you end up “semi-dead” after capsizing in cold water? It seems to me that it’s the equivalent of putting an elastic seat belt in your car. It may give you a feeling of security, but it’s going to fail when you really need it.

For me, a full drysuit is a waste of money. I paddle a surfski and a K1. If I “fall” out, I do not invert like you would on a sea kayak. The notion that water is going to just flood in on a semi-drysuit is just not accurate. I have been wearing one for three years and at least 1-2 times every week through the winter, I jump in, practice remounts and do a bit of swimming around to test my gear–never had a problem with the semi.

I don’t get myself into any situations way offshore in the winter months either so essentially I’d like to keep the $800 for the one added gasket that I won’t need and spend it on something more useful.

Really, your comment makes me wonder if you’ve had any experience with a semi?

You’re right that I haven’t used a semi-dry suit because I have no use for one, as I paddle sit-in boats where the water is cold and I like to practice rolling and other wet skills. Although it’s been a while since I’ve taught anyone rescue skills, my gear needs to be capable of being used for that, too. I may at some point make myself a custom-fit neoprene neck and wrist seals in order to get better durability than latex, they won’t compromise the water-tightness of the suit, so it will still remain “dry”. The only issue with factory neoprene seals is that they either fit or they don’t and you can’t trim them to fit as you can with latex seals.

I do paddle sit ins and use paddling suits a lot (among others - also have a dry suit, semi-dry top, multiple wet suits, etc.).

First myth - dry suits being dry. My full latex-gasket dry suit is rarely ever totally dry. When it has brand new gaskets on it, it is dry, but that doesn’t last long as the gaskets stretch, start wearing, etc. So I am always wearing clothes that still perform the thermal function needed even when wet under the dry suit. Polypro, wool, fleece, and the like.

Once I came to the realization that the dry suit isn’t always dry, I started wearing my paddling suits more (I have 2 - a Kokatat and and old Palm that is pretty much retired now). When doing rolls or rescues, a small amount of water will come into the neck. By the 2nd or 3rd roll, it will have maybe a teaspoon that got in. Years ago I took an incident management/rescue class at Golden Gate Sea Kayak Symposium (so 8 hours being in and out of water) in the Palm and finished the day with maybe a cup in the suit. That is probably representative of what a true long-term swim rescue scenario would bee like.

Both semi-dry suits and the semi-dry top have latex wrist, but neo necks. This seems to be the norm for semi-dry gear. Based on this, I am assuming any benefit of neo wrist is over-weighed by less effectiveness. So I am not sure using ones experience with neoprene wrist gaskets as an example of neoprene neck gasket effectiveness is valid. The neo necks I have also do have ways to adjustment - one has a velcro flap and the other 2 have draw strings (I prefer the drawstrings).

What does a paddling suit have over a dry suit? First and foremost, immensely more comfortable in the neck. Really shows up after a few days of use without cleaning (such as on trips) or when men get that stubble going. I don’t get the red rashes any more where the latex gasket rubs.

Secondary is that the neck gaskets wear a lot slower (if at all - haven’t had to replace any ever, but does seem like they do get roughed out a bit over years). Less gaskets to be staying on top of. Between my girlfriend and I, we have 2 latex neck gaskets and 12 latex wrist gaskets, which depending on use, can last 1 to 5 years. So I am replacing multiple gaskets each year. Pre-replacement, I likely will have used it and gotten some water in (back to that myth of dry suits being dry). Finishing the day with the sleeve of one arm being a bit wet isn’t uncommon. And there less chance of showing up at start of paddle and ripping a gasket when putting the gear on.

Lower price doesn’t hurt, either.

When I have a high likelihood of swimming, I do wear the full dry suit. Primarily surfing and rock gardening, but I really should get a custom wet suit for rock gardening (as being close to rocks would increase chance of ripping dry suit, which would greatly reduce effectiveness of the dry suit). But outside of that, most of my paddles are in the paddling suit.

Of course, YMMV. Necks are all sorts of different shapes and sizes, so quite possible that what seals for me wouldn’t do squat for another. Definitely try on and if the neck feels tight, you are probably good.

Well said Peter. I agree. Last year I switched to wearing gear under the (semi)- drysuit that will function if wet as well and it has given me a secondary benefit as well. I can now change much more quickly and also have the added benefit of having extra protection. I wear my Vaikobi cold gear wetsuit under my semi and it’s worked out amazing. The Vaikobi is a “light” wetsuit and is not restrictive at all. It is essentially a base layer that wont overheat and will also function when wet. If it get’s really cold I may throw on a layer of fleece as well. I highly recommend to anyone with a semi or full drysuit, not only due to ease of use but also as a back up in the event some water leaks in.

@Peter-CA said:
I do paddle sit ins and use paddling suits a lot (among others - also have a dry suit, semi-dry top, multiple wet suits, etc.).

First myth - dry suits being dry. My full latex-gasket dry suit is rarely ever totally dry. When it has brand new gaskets on it, it is dry, but that doesn’t last long as the gaskets stretch, start wearing, etc. So I am always wearing clothes that still perform the thermal function needed even when wet under the dry suit. Polypro, wool, fleece, and the like.

Once I came to the realization that the dry suit isn’t always dry, I started wearing my paddling suits more (I have 2 - a Kokatat and and old Palm that is pretty much retired now). When doing rolls or rescues, a small amount of water will come into the neck. By the 2nd or 3rd roll, it will have maybe a teaspoon that got in. Years ago I took an incident management/rescue class at Golden Gate Sea Kayak Symposium (so 8 hours being in and out of water) in the Palm and finished the day with maybe a cup in the suit. That is probably representative of what a true long-term swim rescue scenario would bee like.

Both semi-dry suits and the semi-dry top have latex wrist, but neo necks. This seems to be the norm for semi-dry gear. Based on this, I am assuming any benefit of neo wrist is over-weighed by less effectiveness. So I am not sure using ones experience with neoprene wrist gaskets as an example of neoprene neck gasket effectiveness is valid. The neo necks I have also do have ways to adjustment - one has a velcro flap and the other 2 have draw strings (I prefer the drawstrings).

What does a paddling suit have over a dry suit? First and foremost, immensely more comfortable in the neck. Really shows up after a few days of use without cleaning (such as on trips) or when men get that stubble going. I don’t get the red rashes any more where the latex gasket rubs.

Secondary is that the neck gaskets wear a lot slower (if at all - haven’t had to replace any ever, but does seem like they do get roughed out a bit over years). Less gaskets to be staying on top of. Between my girlfriend and I, we have 2 latex neck gaskets and 12 latex wrist gaskets, which depending on use, can last 1 to 5 years. So I am replacing multiple gaskets each year. Pre-replacement, I likely will have used it and gotten some water in (back to that myth of dry suits being dry). Finishing the day with the sleeve of one arm being a bit wet isn’t uncommon. And there less chance of showing up at start of paddle and ripping a gasket when putting the gear on.

Lower price doesn’t hurt, either.

When I have a high likelihood of swimming, I do wear the full dry suit. Primarily surfing and rock gardening, but I really should get a custom wet suit for rock gardening (as being close to rocks would increase chance of ripping dry suit, which would greatly reduce effectiveness of the dry suit). But outside of that, most of my paddles are in the paddling suit.

Of course, YMMV. Necks are all sorts of different shapes and sizes, so quite possible that what seals for me wouldn’t do squat for another. Definitely try on and if the neck feels tight, you are probably good.

So any guess how long before you latex gaskets leak?

@PaddleDog52 said:
So any guess how long before you latex gaskets leak?

Depends. I have a new gasket on my dry suit right now, and I trimmed one ring off of it,. This makes it so i can wear it, but it still feels like it is choking me. if I can power through this, then it should stretch to just perfect and maybe not stretch so far as to leak (so would be good until the gasket gets holes or rips).

But if I find I can’t put up with the choking now, and trim another ring off, then I would expect within a year it is loose enough that it lets as much water in as my neoprene neck gaskets. The dry suit is stored currently with a glass vase stretching the neck, so hopefully I can survive the choking.

Well, my experience with drysuits has been completely different. Worst case, I get a little bit of dampness on my underlayers immediately adjacent to the wrist and neck seals, even after hours of being a “tea bag” during rescue training. At the wrists, it typically only happens if my under layer works it’s way under the seal. If I get any leakage at all at the neck, it’s when rolling around underwater and twisting around a lot. The rest of my body is dry, or at least not damp from external sources (I do get sweaty when working hard).

To me a cup of water in the suit would be completely unacceptable, as it means that a lot more probably got in and was absorbed by your under layers. In winter conditions up here, that could be the kiss of death.

If your neck seal is choking you, it’s too tight and you should trim it more, as a neck seal does not need to be tight to work. If you can’t readily lift it off your skin using just your thumb and forefinger, it’s too tight. I was shown this years ago by a paddler who also did a lot of scuba diving in a dry suit. That was how he judged the neck seals on his dive suit and he never had an issue with leaking. Using that same method, I’ve never had issues with my neck seals leaking while paddling, even with the same seal over multiple seasons. It’s also very comfortable and I don’t get any irritation from it at all.

Stretching latex seals is not only a waste of time, it’s potentially harmful. The only way that latex will stretch permanently is if it’s stretched enough to cause micro-tearing of the material, which shortens the life of the seal. Neck seals are designed to be trimmed, not stretched, which is why they have trimming rings molded in. Although some kayak clothing manufacturers caution against trimming wrist seals, I’ve been doing it for a long time with no problems at all. Again, you can learn from the dive community, where trimming is the norm (the latex seals used on kayaking clothing are the same as on diving suits).

The only advantage I see to a semi-dry suit is that the neck seal lasts longer. One of these days when I need to replace my latex neck seal, I’ll make a custom fit neoprene seal (no Velcro or draw string) and test it. I have the material, but just haven’t gotten around to doing it.

You’re right about individual variation. Some people have leakage problems due to the shape of the tendons in their wrists or neck. They can’t make their seals tight enough to prevent leakage without cutting off blood circulation and/or being very uncomfortable. That’s an issue with any type of suit or top.

My neck is 17.5" I cut two rings off my kokatat neck gasket. Never really got water in my suit at wrist or neck. If people are diving in them they must work if properly used. Rolling is nothing compared to a dive or does more water pressure seal it better?