I have a very reliable layback roll but am wondering what I would do if I got upturned and at the same time injured my shoulder. Well, I would probably not have the presence of mind to do anything but exit my kayak, but I’d at least like to know what the most feasible roll, or roll modification, would be under those circumstances, and to then try and learn and practice it. Is there such a roll? A more likely scenario might be trying to re-enter and right my kayak with an injured shoulder. Next time I go out I’m going to explore the possibility of doing this with a paddle float (maybe just holding onto it).
Never tried it myself, but the Greenland armpit roll seems to fit the bill. Didn’t take long to search that one out. Just saying.
@Sparky961 said:
Never tried it myself, but the Greenland armpit roll seems to fit the bill. Didn’t take long to search that one out. Just saying.
Yup. Can do an armpit roll in practice but have never had to in real conditions (knock on wood). I used to work on hand rolls. Did it once in surf when I go stripped off my paddle by a breaker. I hand rolled up but could do not do much boat control without a paddle. Went over again and bailed. Guess the only “real” benefit I got from hand roll practice is that ended up being a better roller with a paddle.
The gist of this is that even I were able to roll back up with an armpit paddle roll, if I were alone (which I often am) than I suspect I would be screwed anyway. At that point, I hope my VHF is on me and working well…
sing
Yeah, that’s my feeling as well. Still, I would like to see if there is any hope of my learning such a roll. Plus, I like having a mission when I go out as opposed to aimless paddling and sightseeing (not that that’s all that bad) but as there are limited paddling options where I live for day trips, I tend to see the same sights over and over and over. My hopes for now reside in a re-enter and “roll” with a paddle float…then probably the VHF.
@sing said:
@Sparky961 said:
Never tried it myself, but the Greenland armpit roll seems to fit the bill. Didn’t take long to search that one out. Just saying.Yup. Can do an armpit roll in practice but have never had to in real conditions (knock on wood). I used to work on hand rolls. Did it once in surf when I go stripped off my paddle by a breaker. I hand rolled up but could do not do much boat control without a paddle. Went over again and bailed. Guess the only “real” benefit I got from hand roll practice is that ended up being a better roller with a paddle.
The gist of this is that even I were able to roll back up with an armpit paddle roll, if I were alone (which I often am) than I suspect I would be screwed anyway. At that point, I hope my VHF is on me and working well…
sing
Angel roll or the Armpit roll {with one arm tucked}… getting out of the kayak just to get back in is a poor idea.
Agree… getting out is not good. Personally I think learning to roll up equally well on both sides with elbows in very close to the torso would take care of the situation. Elbows in close keeps the shoulder pretty ‘stressless’. If it hurts trying to come up right, come up left.
Yes, everybody here agrees that it is better to roll up then to get out.
Maybe there was some confusion that I was implying that rolling might cause an injury. That is not what I was suggesting. The genesis of this train of thought was an incident last year where I got rolled in some energetic surf and likely suffered a brachial plexus shock (conjecture by orthopedic surgeon) causing my left arm to temporarily go limp. The paddle probably got gripped by the breaking wave and leveraged my arm into a position which it did not like before I released it. I wet exited and as I was close to shore just walked in. I don’t know if I would ever be able to execute a one-armed roll under such circumstances but would like to at least try under more controlled conditions.
I don’t know about a complete roll, but my Sirocco will right itself if I lay back. No help required and this is with my head not in the water. That Grand Illusion should do the same thing.
Pain is one thing. Paralysis much worse! Hope it never happens again! I might try some one-arm stuff… next year when it warms up.
I don’t think I’ve tried that yet but I’ll be back on the water in a couple of days. I know the GI will not sit flat on the water in an upside down position, but seems to settle at about 45 degrees on account, I suppose, of the banana shaped deck.
@magooch said:
I don’t know about a complete roll, but my Sirocco will right itself if I lay back. No help required and this is with my head not in the water. That Grand Illusion should do the same thing.
@Rex said:
Pain is one thing. Paralysis much worse! Hope it never happens again! I might try some one-arm stuff… next year when it warms up.
Well, it was definitely weird. I thought I had a mild dislocation (subluxation) and am still not entirely sure that it wasn’t (despite the orthopedic surgeons speculation), but just thankful it wasn’t anything more severe and lasting.
Do you mean one of your arms was completely useless? Could your hand still work? If your hand could still work a crook of the arm roll. . If the hand was also not usable a butterfly roll would work or a shotgun roll both of those are one arm rolls. I would do a butterfly Not sure what you guys mean by armpit roll. I can post me doing these rolls on video but first have to find video clips.
shotgun roll is the same as an armpit roll…just different names for the same thing…Angel roll and Butterfly roll {sometimes call a Crucifix roll too} are the same thing…just different names. crook of the arm roll , is also called the crook of the elbow roll. But if you had a dislocated shoulder…this would not be a good one to use.
I don’t remember if my hand could still work, but as it would be dangling at the end of a useless arm, I wouldn’t be able to get it to go where I needed.
Is the Angel Roll (aka Butterfly roll aka Crucifix roll) what I have seen referred to as the TaDa roll. The one where you start with each hand on the opposite rim of the coaming (e.g., left hand or right side of coaming), flip letting momentum carry you past halfway point, and then extend both arms with paddle parallel to longitudinal axis of kayak (and pushing down on the water forcefully enough that the opposite and equal reaction is your kayak righting itself). In the version I was taught, at the end you say “TaDa”, like a magician.
Would love to see the video’s btw.
Here are a few one handed rolls I did. First is Butter fly roll then I do a reverse sweep (not a one hander) then crook of elbow and finally a shotgun roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wSNxjWjwAg&feature=youtu.be
I did have that scenario you describe happen to me lately. I was sea kayak surfing and got into the shallows. A wave flipped me over and bounced me upside down along the sea floor. There was no rolling out of that. Once I got back into the boat, I noticed how bad my shoulder hurt.
So, I think most of the time of you are in a bad enough wreck to hurt your shoulder badly, you might already be out of your kayak and a roll is out of the question. However, if you get dumped AGAIN after hurting your shoulder, then it would be nice to be able to roll so you don’t have to do a wet entry with a bum shoulder, especially in a rough sea!
In my case, i got rolled in a breaker which grabbed my paddle and took it somewhere my arm, which went along for the ride, didn’t want to be. I remained in my kayak. I got out immediately (I knew I didn’t have a one-armed roll). I have since made sure i can wet exit (from my new kayak and skirt) with my non-dominant hand with or w/o the grab loop.
Looks to me like the shotgun and the butterfly will work with an arm in pain… but not floppy/paralyzed.
I think the butterfly would work ok. If I get a chance I will do one with my one arm just flopping along side. See how it works.