Well hell yes they are !!!
Especially with the marriage factor - - - !!!
Means that if I go out and spend $3000.00 on a “little boat” - - I might as well factor in Child Support and Alimony along with a new dog house to put my pretty new Kayak in.
Now if I stick to the rock bottom Poly Used boats - - Noooo Problem!!!
----Actually, I think my new one will emerge out of the garage as a cedar stripper - - -
as a graduate student…
Considering I’m a graduate student, I have limited $$$ going to my hobbies (and of course I have several which happen to take some bucks). Thankfully, I have a wife that is essentially my sugar momma to some extent that at least LETS me have some $$$ for hobbies.
I have learned to bargain shop as much as possible. Excessive use of discount websites and sales are the norm. I only shell out the bucks at full price for limited items (sprayskirt). My latest find was a Seven2 ISO paddle on steepandcheap.com for $44. Hard to beat a ~2lb paddle for that much regardless of the reviews (it’s working fine for me).
As you might expect, I’m paddling the geo metro of kayaks… a typical roto boat. While it would be nice to get a composite boat one of these days, it will have to wait. Hopefully when the PhD enters my hands one of these days the time investment will be worth it 
Aaron
What’s the question anyway
Kayaking IS expensive!
Compair it to running. How much does it cost a pair of running shoes? Basketball? Hiking? Swimming? The list goes on.
I come to kayaking from cycling. Even then, the cost of a bike and the cost of a kayak is about the same. But a bike doesn’t need a $200 roof rack or a $500 trailer. It doesn’t cost gas money to take it to the water. I just ride out of my front door! I can also ride for 100 miles and see LOTS of countryside. It’s just a lot more efficient.
But I’m not a starving student or struggling single mom. So I can afford a nice (used) fiberglass touring kayak as a first boat. Still, since I bought the boat, I started counting the time I spend on my bike and boat. The bike still wins big time, despite the fact the boat gets “priority”. Why? Because I can ride out of my front door after work for 1/2 hour but it would take that long to get the boat to the water and back, never mind paddling time.
If you like kayaking, and can afford it, do it. If you like skiing and can afford a trip or two each year, do it. But this whole ranting about kayaking being NOT expensive is just plain boring because it’s NOT cheap!
I could afford any boat I want
and yet I paddle a Pamlico 140!!! Your saying I should go buy a $3500 boat just to keep up with the Jones??Sorry,I’m not in to keeping up with the Jones,I buy what I want, not what “everyone” else has!
Still, that’s just your situation, …
– Last Updated: May-09-07 1:13 PM EST –
... and by definition that makes it opinion and relative only to what's relevant to you. You say it takes you half an hour just to get your boat to the water? I have dozens of square miles of lakes and goodness knows how many miles of rivers and streams within half an hour of my house, so what applies to you doesn't necessarily apply to others.
I agree with some of the things you said and I'm not "picking on you" as much as using parts of your post to help make my point. You listed a handful of really cheap sports as comparison, but someone else might compare boating to hobbies like golf, radio-controlled model airplanes, or downhill skiing and come up with exactly the opposite conclusion. I've mentioned here before how I think it's interesting that some people I know think that any one of my five boats was awfully expensive, yet none of those same people think a jet ski is the least bit expensive, even though a jet ski would cost a lot more than all five of my boats put together. Heck, you could even compare it to habits like cigarette smoking and reach the conclusion that it is darned cheap. It's all relative, and it depends on what you value.
suits needs and desires
– Last Updated: May-09-07 1:11 PM EST –
Paddlers should have the boats that are best suited to their desires and needs.
Our first kayaks were Dagger Cypresses, in which we took our first lessons and enjoyed greatly until taking them to the coast of Maine. We discovered they were not appropriate for the conditions in which we were paddling. So, we bought capable sea kayaks. Years later, we own nine kayaks - 4 ww and 5 sea.
If all we did was paddle local small still calm waters, we would probably still be fine with our Cypresses.
The worthwhile advice is to have a boat that is capable of safely handling the water/conditions in which you will paddle.
“Sea Kayaking is Suffering” article
The link below will bring you to a past issue of Kayak Adventure magazine. There is an article in there titled “Is Sea Kayaking Suffering - There’s More to it than putting butts in boats” by John Dowd. You will have to scroll ahead to page 24 to read the article.
The author makes a good case that cheap plastic recreational kayaks are bad for the sport of sea kayaking.
https://www.rapidmedia.com/external/latest_adventure_kayak_issue.php
Kayaking is fun!
How’s that for a title?
Is kayaking worth it? To those who enjoy it, yes, whatever the expense. It’s not about whether it’s expensive or not. But the starting post was so one sided that I felt it serves little purpose.
Kayaking is fun. But what does the price of composite boats has anything to do with it???
Unless, of course, someone is too insucure they need confirmation to justify their ownership of multiple composite boats (or boast).
I’m sorry about my share of the ranting. But this exact type of thread comes up EVERY SINGLE SEASON! Why? Does anyone here still needs justification really???
Yeah, that was your main point, and…
… and I share that viewpoint.
.
“How many potential serious sea kayakers are we losing because they settle for a cheap boat that does not excite them?”
I think? As many as those who would have never bother with kayaking at all had it not for the cheapie plastic rec boats!
it’s a big world out there envyabull
– Last Updated: May-09-07 3:11 PM EST –
Like it or not, sea kayaking is but a small segment of the paddling industry. And it likely always will be.
I think a lot of John Dowd, but I'm not sure what his point is here - other than to patronize specialty shops. That certainly fits with my view, but certainly not in order to perpetuate and make sea kayaking more popular for others. And the game has changed for specialty shops, and the competition is not all bad. Specialty shops now must do something besides carry high end product lines to ensure their success, and that's a good thing. Specialty shops didn't get a bad rap for no reason.
And I completely disagree with the assertion that the poly rec boat is a "dead-end" boat. For every person who starts off biking on a premium road bike there are scores who started out on entry level bikes. Same is true for kayaking and I'm one of them. And I'm betting Jon Turk would have a few words with Dowd re: poly boats.
I used to wonder where people got the claims of snobbery in these forums. I don't think it was your purpose but the post and article sure come across that way. Are we that insecure that we need to prop up the sport? Why do some of us need so desperately for sea kayaking to be taken seriously by others?
So are composite sea kayaks expensive? No more tha any other sporting goods item - climbing, cycling, backpacking - that caters to the more advanced and specialized segments of their markets.
relative cost
Yeah I use my kayak daily and might put more miles on it annually than a lot of powerboats. But, last Saturday on the river I passed a several boats with hot bikini clad girls on them. Only passengers I had were some blind mosquitoes stuck in my sweaty chest hair. Who’s getting more bang for their dollar there?
I resemble that remark . . . .
And to the question of whether it’s too much? Another way to look at it is this: If someone has never kayaked, doesn’t know anyone else that does, doesn’t live near a large body of water, and isn’t prone to investing $3500 to “TRY” a new sport he may or may not like, then yeah, it’s way to expensive.
The “cheap” rec boats (the only I own for similar reasons that yanoer mentioned) open the door and allow someone to step gradually into the pool, instead of jumping off the high dive for their first swim.
Baby steps, man. Some of us are still trying to stand without hanging on to the couch . . . get the video camera ready . . . .
Don’t forget the other factor . . . .
Or to avoid divorce, you get the “You spent $3K on yourself, now what do IIIIIIIIIIIi GEEETTTT?!?!?!?”
That makes your $3500 composite cost $7000. ;-p
Agreed.
That was really my first impression when reading the original post.
Butts in boats are rarely a seller of…
the sport when the young and beautiful could be standing next to them illustrating both theirs and their sports beauty. Think about it, some mossy old guy going off a camping for the next 60 days or a babe in board shorts slashing at the wave at her local park n play. The young are not so attracted to our vanity as you would like. Sorry Envyabull, that has to hurt I know, but it is a wakeup call. Middle aged men have dealt with midlife crises for ages with a leather coat and a hot car, why change the recipe?
Digressing to Dowd, my casual paddling friends are not lining up to learn the craft of navigation and seamanship from the master hisself. They want to go look at ducks in the back slough, or seals lounging on the bank. Fair enough, there is a boat for them. EJ is smart enough to have captured that concept by introducing a (w)rec(k) boat. He probably figures his dealers can move alot of (w)rec(k) boats to people definately not on the A list for the Worlds up in Toronto. No he won’t be deciding the debate between north American and British design so that hurts our collective sea kayak vanities? The vanity of lead singers in glam bands, only mossier.
Dogmaticus
wanting more and better - an addiction
It would seem to me that the right inexpensive first boat would natually leave the paddler wondering about trying more expensive fancier ones.
The addiction starts with one simple not too over priced boat and the next thing you know you are hooked and want something that should be even better.
Actually my first kayak was not for me but it didn’t stop me from buying number 2 - my first Pungo a 12 foot Classic. My third kayak was an embarrasing disaster for me - something I shouldn’t have tried. Then some folks here hooked me up with a 14 foot Pungo! I really had some special times with it last summer and look forward to more this summer. I learned that kayaking alone in mild rain on a warm day can give one a rush to go for again and again.
However sooner or later I’m going to want another kayak, I’m hoping to try an Eddyline Nighhawk and trying to have the funds to buy one if it works out that I will want it.
This is an addiction and I know from reading on here that I am not the only one who has this addiction.
I bought a boat, then I bought another boat, and then and so forth.
I need a new living room sofa but I am saving for a new kayak first. I need my floors done but I’m sure that a kayak is more important than my floors.
Priorities. I have a part time job and they offer free classes during the summer. The local club paddles on Wednesday nights and my job has offered the class I want on Wednesday nights. I choose kayaking instead. This year I actually managed to get the company to offer that class on Tuesday nights - so as not to interfere with Wednesday night paddles. It’s a big company and I live in a big district - but I pleaded my case for moving the tax class to another night and it got moved. Hurray for me.
I still think some of us poor folks in inexpensive boats we like need a bumper sticker that says “my other boat is a QCC” or something.
Not Being Elitist
In my original post I said if someone was a serious paddler and could afford it, a composite sea kayak is relatively inexpensive compared to many other sports/hobbies. I don’t think this is an elitist statement. I certainly did not mean to imply that sea kayaking is only a sport for those who can afford a composite boat. I was trying to get across the idea that despite the top equipment being relatively affordable, many of those who can afford it still percieve composite boats as expensive.
I threw a couple theories out there to explain it: Sea kayaking attracts cheaper people and/or plastic kayaks have lowered the acceptable price threshold.
There will always be bargain hunters and those who find an acceptable level of performance at a lower cost. But this does not change the fact that composite sea kayaks are relatively inexpensive compared to other equipment-critical sports. And they are an incredible value when compared to other boating activities in general.
John Dowd’s Opinions
While I find John Dowd’s article very intriguing, I have never said I completely agreed with him. I am still contemplating the ideas he put forth. I do like the premise and do think the questions/opinions he raises are good food for thought. But just because I posted the link does not make his opinions mine. So do not attack me personally for what he said.
Now if you want to attack me personally you can use my comments below as fodder:
I did find myself laughing when Dowd compared plastic rec kayaks to garbage cans. Perhaps John Dowd’s comparison to garbage cans was a bit demeaning, but his point was right on about rec kayaks being just a plastic commodity. Their pricing is based more on the current cost of plastic and shipping than other factors. The ultimate cost of a plastic kayak should go up and down along with the cost of oil. Some marketing companies can still get a premium for their kayaks because of their strong brand name, but it still about turning plastic into profit. Not too different from garbage cans or lawn furniture. I was in the plastics business for years. There is nothing magic about what the plastic kayak companies are doing that isn’t any different from any other large plastic products, except for marketing.
I’ve often thought of the little plastic rec “kayaks” as glorified beach toys. It was good for me to see someone with more notariety get published for saying the same thing. That does not mean they are not fun and not appropriate for some people in some conditions. But I think Dowd’s point is that these boats do not come close to representing sea kayaking as the serious sport it originally was and still is in some of our eyes.
I’m not sure yet if all those plastic rec reational sea kayaks will ultimately be good or bad for the more advanced level of sea kayaking that some of us do and Dowd is speaking of. I do think the vast majority of these customers will never go beyond those small boats. However, while paddling I have met others in their little plastic boats in conditions thay had no business being in. And when we spoke it was clear that some of these folks had aspirations for better equipment. I wonder if those kinds of people would have initially bought a more appropriate sea kayak for their goals if they were not tempted by the inexpensive kayak in the shop window of Dicks Sporting Goods, that is usually marketed as a true sea kayak.
On the other hand , I think of windsurfing as an example. In the 80’s there was a huge windsurfing explosion. There were shops in most shoreline communities that did well selling windsurfing equipment and clothing. The equipment evolved quite quickly and became quite specialized. It got so one had to have multiple boards and sails. It became quite expensive to windurf at the levels the few companies left were promoting. Ultimately the masses went away and only a few asses were left. All the stores shut down. I have no idea where you would buy a windsurfer today.
Sea kayaking seems to have gone in the other direction. The true sport of sea kayaking was experiencing good growth and shops were selling good sea-worthy equipment along with approprate instruction. Now if the equipment and shops all evolved towards racing kayaks and surfskis the base would have dropped out like with windsurfing. Sea kayaking would have become a highly specialized sport for the asses not the masses. Ultimately this would have killed off the sea kayak market.
But, the explosion of rec boats has taken the true sport of sea kayaking in the opposite direction. It has become easier and cheaper to get a “sea kayak” and go “sea kayaking” by the new sense of the term propogated by the plastic product marketing companies. It should be interesting to see how it all plays out. I’m not sure if this dumbing down of sea kayaking will ultimately increase or decrease the number of paddlers who advance to true sea-worthy boats and skills. It will be interesting to watch the true sea kayak market to see what happens.
I do think that the sea kayak shop will be a good guage of the rec boat’s effect. Ultimately I expect to see plastic rec kayaks in Wal Mart and the other discount stores. When that happens even the real sea kayak shop will not be able to compete in the rec boat market. Their livlihood will depend on higher level equipment and instruction. This is already happening with competition by Dicks, EMS, REI, etc…
If the real sea kayak shops go away, then you will know that the little “garbage can” “beach toy” sea kayaks were bad for the true sport of sea kayaking.
I appreciate warnings and predictions like John Dowd’s. It encourages discussion. Only time will tell if he was right.
Let’s be real here . . .
I’m four hours away from Lake Michigan. We have some marginal resevoirs (mostly lined w/ homes) and a few nice rivers, no whitewater.
Where am I (on a regular basis) going to get to “Sea kayak”? I think the boat manufacturers are smart enough to realize that most people in this country have little or no access to large bodies of water, while most have access to small lakes, ponds & rivers. If that’s bad for the sport, then the sport has a problem.